Video from a Training Dive with John Chatterton

[Zack-Bloom]

Students don't know what they don't know and by definition a class can't have enough dives on a single wreck to have "progressive penetration". So not running a line is just being lazy. In my PADI wreck class way back in 2004(?) we ran a line on every dive including our "graduation" dives. We were students and learning. Progressive penetration was discussed as something you might do with dozens of dives in a particular area of a wreck but highly discouraged for a novice student.

Just to clarify, in the class we spent a good amount of time doing line work. We laid a line between points on the RSB-1, and followed an intentionally-clumsily laid line many times through a pretty complex passage on the Captain Dan, first normally, then with a blackout mask. That said, it's not a cave course and you can't expect quite so much line-work as you would get there.

We are students. We absolutely would not run that course on our own if the instructors were not there, and having done it we now know that for a fact. We would explore one area at a time and gradually develop the understanding necessary to move that far into the wreck over many dives, using more navigational aids, that's what we were taught. If your goal is to teach real wreck divers, I'm not sure it's realistic to teach wreck diving in a way which doesn't align with how it's actually done. That is the attitude which made all of the class material I've read so divorced from real diving.

 

[rjack321]

Not sure how you got the impression that we didn't run lines in class. I was just saying that like everything else, you don't ALWAYS do it, you don't NEVER do it, you think about the dive and make a plan...

I would expect a good wreck class to include tons of line work. And because you only have a few class dives and no experience yet to make judgement calls about the possibility of doing lineless penetrations - that every one of the class dives would include running a line. If you are in a class environment and the instructor is saying you don't need to run a line you are basically doing a trust me dive.

We are students. We absolutely would not run that course on our own if the instructors were not there, and having done it we now know that for a fact.

I'm glad you see it this way now.​

 

[Stoo]

We're students. We will make mistakes..

Hey Zack... My comment was not in any way meant as a criticism of how you guys were deploying SMBs etc.... more on how you were being trained. I think you pointed out in your narration that SMBs are generally deployed in open water (making kneeling tough!) so I was surprised to see John not encouraging you guys to get off the bottom. Similarly, flutter kicks kick up so much crap in a wreck or cave, that encouraging a flutter kick would have been good IMHO.

So sorry if it came across as a criticism of your gangs diving. It wasn't. Lots of people dive that way but it's a little surprising better techniques aren't being taught.

And I really did enjoy the video!

 

[cerich]

That sounds like a bad idea. Buddy verification at time of switch is the gold standard. The whole point of doing a buddy check is so that if your self awareness breaks down (aka diving air to 165 like in your class), you've got someone ensuring it's right before you start puffing on it. What if you're buddy's narced too and swims off in the other direction. Now you're breathing the wrong mix for a minute while you wait for him to get his head straight? While that's not totally realistic, it's a simple example of why verifying before breathing is the gold standard. I don't think his argument is a strong one.



r.

may I add that I teach that after your team mate watches you switch and verified pre and during the switch that they observe you for a minute after the gas switch is done to ensure the just switched diver gets stabilized and also so that if there issues they are more likely to present then while the just switch diver is being watched than while you are switching and not watching the diver that just switched. Yes, it adds a min to each stop and tad longer run time.

 

[Stoo]

And I forget why my head is bubbling so bad in the second video bah

Probably a minor embolism...

 

[doctormike]

You really need to watch the video before you continue to comment. Honestly it's starting to sound like you're trying to justify things as being OK because he was your instructor. That may not be the case, but that's how it's starting to come off. So watch the damn video and then let us know what you think. BTW, I think the reasonings for not running a line that you say he gave are a little bit of BS, but that's just me. I'm not a big wreck diver.

Sorry to upset you. I was actually speaking in general terms, and talking about my own experience, and giving my opinion about wreck diving. Since rjack asked me a question, I figured I would respond.

But have at it. I'll be back if I get a chance to watch the video.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Training issues aside, I thought the video was very well done. You have a good narrative voice and kept the viewer engaged throughout. Well done.

 

[Zack-Bloom]

That sounds like a bad idea. Buddy verification at time of switch is the gold standard. The whole point of doing a buddy check is so that if your self awareness breaks down (aka diving air to 165 like in your class), you've got someone ensuring it's right before you start puffing on it. What if you're buddy's narced too and swims off in the other direction. Now you're breathing the wrong mix for a minute while you wait for him to get his head straight? While that's not totally realistic, it's a simple example of why verifying before breathing is the gold standard. I don't think his argument is a strong one.

I'm not really qualified to have any opinion. All I would say is it's worth considering the difference between theoretical what-ifs, and the actual things which have killed people doing technical dives. We all know that breathing the wrong gas kills people, but what actually leads to that mistake being made and to it being made for long enough to have consequences? I believe Chatterton's methods descend from the experiences he's had, and to a certain extent the bodies he's had to recover.

Training issues aside, I thought the video was very well done. You have a good narrative voice and kept the viewer engaged throughout. Well done.

Thanks so much! That's very kind and makes me want to make more videos.

 

[cerich]

I'm not really qualified to have any opinion. All I would say is it's worth considering the difference between theoretical what-ifs, and the actual things which have killed people doing technical dives. I believe Chatterton's methods descend from the experiences he's had, and to a certain extent the bodies he's had to recover.



Thanks so much! That's very kind and makes me want to make more videos.

for sure, and plenty of bodies have been recovered by divers employing "strobe" marking in wrecks.

 

[Zack-Bloom]

Totally agree..I want to take the adv wreck under him as well but he is always fully booked from what I see. Probably one of the greatest diving legands in my eye

Because we were a team of three we just emailed him and were able to schedule at our convenience. Maybe there's a way to get a group of people together on the board?