Really Bad Regulators

[DivingCRNA]

I dont believe there is such a thing as a "bad" regulator. Certainly there are some that are better than others.
But, I dont believe that any manufacturer could manufacture and sell a life sustaining device that doesnt work well.

I see that you have not tried the Oceanic Zeta.....

I am not ripping all of Oceanic, just the Zeta. My wife had one and it was terrible.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Well.

The problem with this question is than almost every one who replies is not qualified to make judgment on what they recommend, it's all just opinion based on what they own. As Bret of Les Pro points out you can read ScubaLab reports, but that’s even worse. A bunch of money based BS tests done by journalists not reg tech's. A soft exhaust valve can do more for the TWOB value then a low cracking effort. Reliability is never mentioned by anyone here but me, over all build quality, chrome, seat life and fail rates or never compared.

So,

The original post is imposable to answer.

Now what can I do to help?

Go to your LDS see what they recommend for the type of diving you intend to do. Talk to the Tech and ask if he/(she!) can recommend some thing. Ask if they work on commission and why they want you to buy the $1500 TI reg! Will you be diving locally to this shop or will you never see them again? Don't go to Les Pro or S Toys they just want to sell what they have most of.

I have the option to stock and sell almost all brands of reg's BC's and computers but choose not to, on an island I cannot afford to have stuff come back all the time so we pick items that have over the years proven to work well and last.
If I were to give an opinion would anyone listen anyway?

If my old posts were not lost in the SB crash search and see what i've said in the past.


D.M


Flame on boy's Flame on

And I thought I was a grumpy old guy! Time to go down to the pub and have a brew, then maybe you will mellow out and and try to contribute something.

 

[The Anchor]

The general feeling here seems to be "don't buy the low end model."

I am in the market for regs as well and I would sugest you look at two things primarily. First, what does your LDS service. It seems to me that there is no point in buying a reg that you have to ship somewhere to get it serviced every year. That would probably cut a month of diving out of your year. It will also add to your expense when it needs to be serviced.

Second, look at what waranty the reg has. I think Atomic has a lifetime waranty that is transferable and I know that Apex and Aqualung have free parts for the anual service.

Things like these should probably be your first considerations. After that, which one looks the prettiest...

 

[Scuba Tech]

And I thought I was a grumpy old guy! Time to go down to the pub and have a brew, then maybe you will mellow out and and try to contribute something.

Here's one of the post's I said you should search for. I wrote some time back in 2005.



"Atx 50

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great reg, no question, have serviced hundreds of this model.

1st Stage.

HP seat is one of the best in the industy in the hands of an abusive divemaster can last over 1000 dives and not fail.
Itermediate pressure will not creep.
Chrome is some of the best on the market today.
The enviro seal will start to bulge after a while, this is normal and is replaced at service (caused by ware of the primary diaphragm).

2nd Stage.

Phnematicaly ballanced venturi assisted, performance is equal to any other 2nd stage on the market, adjustments are easier to use then most.
Works great in cold due to heat sinks on both sides (adjustment knob is metal for a reason!).
LP seats used by Apeks are kind of crappy and has no seat saving device built in like Atomic and Scubapro. Make sure you store it with the adjustment all the way out!
The venturi system on these are prone to getting sand in the workings (your fault not the regs!) Adjustment will feel gritty and can cause wet breating, keep it out of the sand!
Early ATX's used a rubber (ish) inhalation diaphragm (junk) make sure you have upgraded to the new Aqualung made silicone diaphragm (came out just over 1 year ago), not a warranty part so dont expect old ones to be replaced for free.
Exhaust valve is made from rubber (ish) and is not part of the annual service kit it will go bad after about 2 years, expect to see Aqualung replace this for there silicone LX/Legend Valve soon.

This is one of the best regs on the market today, Reliability, Performance and Cost have made this one of the fastest selling regs world wide. Since its introduction in the Aqualung line up the Apeks brand has become a real Scubapro killer. We are now servicing more Apeks brand regs then Scubapro's!

Enjoy! "





Every thing I said in this post happend. It's like I actualy know stuff!!!


Off to the pub now


D.M

 

[Greg Barlow]

Well.

As Bret of Les Pro points out you can read ScubaLab reports, but that’s even worse. A bunch of money based BS tests done by journalists not reg tech's. A soft exhaust valve can do more for the TWOB value then a low cracking effort. Reliability is never mentioned by anyone here but me, over all build quality, chrome, seat life and fail rates or never compared.

D.M

Flame on boy's Flame on

Your comment about ScubaLab's "biased" testing is totally ridiculous! I worked for the magazine for quite some time. If this is a true statement, then the German mag Tauchen and the British magazine DIVER all work for the same "pimps". Their ANSTI simulator tests ALL give mathematically comparable scores.

Furthermore, several manufacturers have pulled advertising dollars from the magazine because their products didn't receive the scores that they had "hoped" for. If the scores are unfair and biased, then that would be excellent grounds for slander in a court of law. How many cases of slander did the magazine have to deal with while I worked for them? ZERO.

ANSTI machines are now used by EVERY SINGLE REGULATOR MANUFACTURER IN THE U.S.A. AND EUROPE. When you consider the cost of the machine, the companies must have faith in its results.

And finally, don't you find it interesting that the US Navy also used the same simlator for their testing of regulators? I have personally seen Navy computerized results, and they demonstrate the same breathing effort scores.

Please enlighten us with a complete background of your experience that allows you to make a statement like the one you made. Working in a dive shop certainly does not make anyone an expert. I am not claiming to know everything about regulators, but having been rebuilding them, designing parts for them, and having studied their engineering designs for more than 32 years, I should know at least a little bit about their mechanical properties. I restore vintage double and single hose regs as a hobby, and can tell you that I have tested at least five regs built in the early 1970s that met US Navy standards at a depth of 132fsw and with a RMV of 62.5lpm. Not bad for some old timers...

I agree with you that Apeks makes great regs. I have made many dives with them over the last five years.

If you would like to discuss some of the design features and mechanical principles behind regulator designs, I would be more than happy to do so. Heck, you might even convince me that you can judge a regulator's WOB better than the $100K ANSTI simulator.

Greg Barlow

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

//clip//Since its introduction in the Aqualung line up the Apeks brand has become a real Scubapro killer. We are now servicing more Apeks brand regs then Scubapro's!//clip//

I just had my 15-year-old ScubaPro regs (which I bought off of eBay) in for service, and when the tech was bench-testing them he said, "Wow. These breath better than my new Apex regs!"

To the OP, I would just add one comment. Several posters have suggested you get regs that can be serviced by your LDS. I, personally, wouldn't have a problem mailing them off, but you need to weigh that for yourself. My advice, on the other hand, is to get simple, popular regs that you (as a resort diver) can get serviced where ever you dive. And even that's not important if you don't mind renting should one of your regs fail while you are at a resort.

Personally, I'd go with ScubaPro or Aqualung. They perform great, and you can always get 'em fixed.

 

[halocline]

I own one of the low end unbalanced 1st stages, the SP MK2 and I can tell you from experience that it performs prefectly adequately down to 130 ft; not quite as smooth as my MK15 G250, but I have no hesitation using it, and it's very reliable.

As far as "bad" regs, you might want to avoid some models of Dacor as I have found it difficult to get parts for my old viper octo, and consequently I just don't use it.

 

[Leisure Pro Brett]

Well.

The problem with this question is than almost every one who replies is not qualified to make judgment on what they recommend, it's all just opinion based on what they own. As Bret of Les Pro points out you can read ScubaLab reports, but that’s even worse. A bunch of money based BS tests done by journalists not reg tech's. A soft exhaust valve can do more for the TWOB value then a low cracking effort. Reliability is never mentioned by anyone here but me, over all build quality, chrome, seat life and fail rates or never compared.

So,

The original post is imposable to answer.

Now what can I do to help?

Go to your LDS see what they recommend for the type of diving you intend to do. Talk to the Tech and ask if he/(she!) can recommend some thing. Ask if they work on commission and why they want you to buy the $1500 TI reg! Will you be diving locally to this shop or will you never see them again? Don't go to Les Pro or S Toys they just want to sell what they have most of.

I have the option to stock and sell almost all brands of reg's BC's and computers but choose not to, on an island I cannot afford to have stuff come back all the time so we pick items that have over the years proven to work well and last.
If I were to give an opinion would anyone listen anyway?

If my old posts were not lost in the SB crash search and see what i've said in the past.


D.M


Flame on boy's Flame on

It's a good observation that reading and taking the ScubaLab reports as your only source of information might not be the best way to find a good reg. I was merely using it to point out regs that might fall under the "Bad" category the original poster was referring to. As in all things such as this it's a good idea to gather information from multiple sources and form your own opinion.

P.S. I won't just sell you whatever we have the most of, stock changes so dramatically with the order volume we have and new product replenishing it daily, it's almost impossible to keep up with. If you know what you want when you call, I'd be happy to hook you up with it, if you want my opinion on some options I will be happy to help you with that as well.

 

[Greg Barlow]

It's a good observation that reading and taking the ScubaLab reports as your only source of information might not be the best way to find a good reg. I was merely using it to point out regs that might fall under the "Bad" category the original poster was referring to. As in all things such as this it's a good idea to gather information from multiple sources and form your own opinion.

P.S. I won't just sell you whatever we have the most of, stock changes so dramatically with the order volume we have and new product replenishing it daily, it's almost impossible to keep up with. If you know what you want when you call, I'd be happy to hook you up with it, if you want my opinion on some options I will be happy to help you with that as well.

Brett,

I didn't take offense to anything that you said. I would make the point that any regulator sold by one of the major manufacturers is going to be an adequate, safe model for recreational level diving.

In fact, ubalanced piston first stages such as the Mares R2, are excellent values that will meet the needs of the vast majority of dives within the recreational limits. They are extremely reliable due to the low number of moving parts, and seals.

I have made a number of purchases from Leisure Pro over the years. Most of my hoods, gloves, and back-up lights came from your warehouse. Your prices are usually among the lowest available.

Greg

 

[rmannix]

Here's one of the post's I said you should search for. I wrote some time back in 2005.



"Atx 50

2nd Stage.

Phnematicaly ballanced venturi assisted, performance is equal to any other 2nd stage on the market, adjustments are easier to use then most.
Works great in cold due to heat sinks on both sides (adjustment knob is metal for a reason!).

D.M

Adjustment knob on Apeks might be shiny, but its plastic. Take another look.