Ethical practice in wreck diving

[Diver0001]

It's only hypocritical if you're the one dragging the wire, so to speak.

We all drag the wire. When you buy a new pair of shoes and wonder if you're not paying too much then you're dragging the wire. Wrecks are in the way. Going around them takes time and increases cost. Time is money. If you're not willing to pay "whatever it takes" so wrecks can be left alone and shipping lanes can be reorganised every time a ship sinks then YOU are dragging the wire.

Think about that because from where I'm sitting there is hypocritical and there are those who don't even know what their roll is.......

R..

 

[Sinbad the Diver]

Living in Northern VA the preservation vs use discussion is a never ending battle. In some respects I see both points as a veteran and someone who understands the sacrafice of men and women in uniform, I hate to see their deeds forgotten or their final resting places be disturbed for trophy hunting. I also don't like the idea that some group can take away the rights of a landowner to legaly use his or her land because of historic issues. The problem is that I can't tell you a good rule that would be fair to everyone, it's one of those there has to be a line somewhere, but I can't tell you where the line is, but I can tell if you've crossed it in my mind.

I would not want to see someone build condos on Cemetary Ridge in Gettyburg, PA. On the other hand, I don't think some historical group had the right to stop a shopping center from being built on land adjacent to the Bull Run Battlefield (though the local govt said they had the right).

As for wrecks, I think they should be available for all to dive. I think as a community though we should have discussions like this so that if you chose to go into a wreck you will have thought about this and can make up your mind how you will act. I hope anyone that dives a wreck will treat it with the respect and dignity that it deserves and will leave the pieces and parts there for others to see and will refrain from disturbing the remains of those that died in service of their country, no matter who that country is and whether you think that country was good or bad. But in the end, I know there is no hope of that happening because not everyone feels the way I do (IOW a lot of people are wrong ). In the end you have to answer to yourself and whomever you believe you will meet when you die.

 

[Barracuda2]

Here's a good question: If given the opportunity, would you dive the Arizona in Hawaii?

 

[seaducer]

I know my view is "non-traditional" - but here it is anyway. I don't believe in any concept of "hallowed ground".

That is pretty much how I feel. I don't want to sound disrespectful but if we stopped recreating anyplace that somebody died there would be few places left. In fact the new trend here is putting up roadside memorials where people died. Not only are they everywhere, but come on already! We have graveyards for that. Some people feel the need to take over anyplace that someone has died. It is getting old. My father died in a hospital, should I take over that room and keep it as a memorial to him?

I think that wrecks with human remains should be treated with some sort of respect, don't be looting the victims, but I also think we should not be restricted from them just because somebody died there.

And I am not a "wreck diver". I enjoy them mostly from the outside in so far as they attract the wildlife I go to see. I do not, nor do I see myself in the future going onto a wreck for the sake of removing artifacts or any of that. My opinion is not biased by those desires. I have never suffered from "china fever". I am just getting tired of people taking the grieving process to extremes. Putting up memorials and restricting shipwrecks does not prove you love more than someone who doesn't feel the desire to do those things.

If I am ever killed at sea, feel free to dive that wreck. In fact, please dive that wreck, I would hate to think people were kept from it for such selfish reasons as my bones are there. Dieing is the only constant to living. Pay your respects, but don't go overboard. Pun intended...

 

[NudeDiver]

Here's a good question: If given the opportunity, would you dive the Arizona in Hawaii?

If it were legal, and an otherwise appropriate dive opportunity, given my equipment and skills, I see no reason why I wouldn't dive the Arizona in Hawaii or any other shipwreck.

FWIW, I'd play Frisbee on a civil war battlefield too.....but not for very long. I don't find Frisbee all that entertaining.

I think about it this way - the best way to "honour the dead" is to live and enjoy life.

 

[bdshort]

I think I agree with pretty much everyone else here... to me, a wreck where people have died is no different from an historical battlefield. Thousands of people every year visit Gettysburg or Normandy or any number of other similar sites and are able to remain respectful, and there's no reason to think that a far lower number of divers visiting historical shipwrecks can't do the same.

I would say I have an issue taking items from historical wrecks, but then I think I might be a hypocrite. I say this because if I were to one day visit the Andrea Doria, for example, and was able to locate items like dishes, I'd have a hard time keeping myself from taking them.

 

[NudeDiver]

If you find an old gold coin, while walking across a civil war battlefield, I doubt you would just leave it there. I also doubt you would "turn it in". By the same token, if you find a gold coin while diving on some shipwreck, whether people died on that wreck or not, I don't see how the logic involving leaving it there, keeping it, or "turning it in" would be any different.

Cheers!
nd

p.s.: "you" is the generic you, not any particular you who has posted.

 

[seaducer]

If you find an old gold coin, while walking across a civil war battlefield, I doubt you would just leave it there. I also doubt you would "turn it in". By the same token, if you find a gold coin while diving on some shipwreck, whether people died on that wreck or not, I don't see how the logic involving leaving it there, keeping it, or "turning it in" would be any different.

Cheers!
nd

p.s.: "you" is the generic you, not any particular you who has posted.

Something lieing loose on the sand is quite a bit different from dismantling a wreck. An analogy to fit your battlefield would be that I pried the broze caps off the wheels of a canon cart. It is the prying off and destroying the wreck that most people, myself included, are opposed to. In the case of trying to ID a wreck so family may gain some closure is one thing, adding to your personal collection is entirely different. IMO

 

[NudeDiver]

Something lieing loose on the sand is quite a bit different from dismantling a wreck.

Sure it is. But I wasn't talking about prying anything off of anything. I was talking about finding something just sitting there, unattached - like BD's dishes in the post above mine.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I'll depart from the conservatice here and state that I also feel something lying in the sand is a bit different and that I would probably pick it up. It does not involve damaging or further dismantling the wreck and it woudl indeed probably be lost shortly.

For example I do have a small roughly 1.5" by 1.5" piece of the casing of the U352 desalinating that I picked up off the sand. It is very thin, very fragile and would not have lasted long if left wehre it was at. The plan is to frame it with a print of the U-352 and present it as birthday present to a good freind who is a historian with a focus on WWII and maritime history. It will mean a lot to him and to all of the non divers who will see it.

Now...I say that with caution. When I was younger I saw no real issue with picking up spent cartridge cases from battlefields (plains indian wars) as they were just lying there, added nothing to the picture of the battle and were on private land. That was true at the time. However now the current level of forensics technology can match firing pin indentations even on these very old and weathered cartridge cases. This technology was applied at the Little Big Horn battle field and had some profound implications on how the battle is now believed to have progressed. So in retrospect you have to ask yourself how much lost information has resulted from all of the farmers, ranchers, toursists and other non evil intentioned people over the last 140 years picking up spent cartridge cases from various plains battlefields.

So...you have to use common sense but also you have to use a bit of vision for the future both in terms of overall impact and potential techological advances when deciding whether picking something up is truly harmless. If in doubt, leave it there.