"Is a BP/W too confusing for new divers?" and related topics...

[00wabbit]

Just to respond to Op's title question.

I don't think the BP/w is confusing at all in itself but when I was starting last year, the shop I went to only had a couple and I didn't really know what they were. I heard them mentioned a couple of times on scubaboard but didnt really research too much at the time. As a fresh new diver with no experience I was looking at the Scubabpro Nighthawk with air2. It made sens to me, super cool design. It had a big embroidered hawk on the inside. Air2 meant one less hose to carry around and the 45 pound wing on the XXL version was sure to float my fat ass.
On the other hand the shop had some steel backplates hanging up on a rack and then on a different rack there were some floppy plain black wings. To my consumer eyes they just seemed so old fashioned and cheap. It was also a little weird to see how everything would work together. I mean the knighthawk had integrated weight pockets. Where was I supposed to put my weights on a bp/w? I didn't like the weightbelts. The knighthawk had pockets (small ones) but at least I could put my little flashlight in them, where did they go on the bp/w? The knighthawk had that air2, if I got the BP/w I would have to deal with another hose. The Knighthawk had padding and d-rings and clips. How were they supposed to get me out of the bp/w? That stiff webbing looks so uncomfortable. I don't want a hard metal plate on my back that is surely uncomfortable too.
Besides the knighthawk says scubapro on it and all my instructors have scubapro. If its good enough for the pros it's good enough for me.

That was some of my thought process. So I bought the knighthawk.
Then I went to a drysuit. Now my problem was, that I had so much lead in the knighthawk pockets that I was overloading them. Without a crotchstrap it liked to ride a bit high on me and when it did it started to push me head down. I countered this unsuccessfully with heavier fins and ankle weights. Then I dove colder with more undergarments and had more trouble with weights. I eventually ditched the ankle weights, but still felt like a trainwreck underwater.
Then after diving with more folks with drysuits, I switched to steel tanks, bp/w, long hose, dui weight harness. I've almost cut the lead I carry in half by adding the steel plate, removing all that padding, and reducing weight after my safety stops if my tank is near empty and I still sink.

Now I get it, it makes much more sense, but as a consumer of flashy new cars with flashy new features and phones that can do everything in one it is hard to understand the BP/w at first unless someone shows you.

 

[Martini]

Someone asked how much time was put in and since I am one of Wayne instructors I will answer while he dives . Out typical open water class has approx 9 hours of classroom and 12 hours of pool time. Checkout dives are done over a weekend with with 2 dives each day. Our ratio in the pool is on average 4 to 1. In open water we try to keep a ratio of no more than 3 to 1 by utilizing our great DMs like RJP. Most students typical gone on to take PPB so they can continue to work on improving trim, buoyancy and propulsion techniques. This includes 1 to 2 hours of classroom and 2-4 hours of pool time. Then 2 very focused open water dives with a 2 to 1 ratio. Hope this helps and answers a few questions. We find this works very well and we are very proud of the students we turn out

 

[Errol Kalayci]

Here is a photo of GUE Rec 1 grads (open water) on their 1st dive post certification

In my experience, divers easily understand appreciate and enjoy diving a back plate and wing. Of course I do not teach divers with anything else so maybe my experience is skewed. Here is a photo where you can see divers on first dive post certification in GUE Open Water. Until the class, they had never seen or used any dive gear.

 

[chrpai]

I see many instructors in this thread I would trust with my 10 y/o.

 

[mdax]

Glad to see instructors using bp/w and getting students in proper trim...heck, i watched a cavern class doing valve drills on their knees.
I find it is much easier to achieve proper trim in a bp/w, as does my wife and daughter.
Only environment where bp/w is not great is wriggling into small spaces no mount or one tank off...but that's an entirely different conversation.

 

[dfx]

Now my question is... in those classes that teach good buoyancy, trim and propulsion techniques, how much time is spent on those skills? Especially in relation to time spent on other basic skills?

 

[beaverdivers]

"BP/W for OW students?"

Interesting post.

However, BP/W would not work for many of my OW students because they would be overweighted even with an aluminum backplate. Many of them need zero weight.

 

[chrpai]

An Al plate and tank is all I need for fresh water skin diving. There are lighter plates available or just put on some more neoprene.

 

[Akimbo]

"Is a BP/W too confusing for new divers?"

Considering so few divers have mastered the complexities of a snorkel, I’d have to say probably.

 

[graham_s]

I'm confused.
How is a BP/W any more difficult that a jacket.
Once it's on, the controls are the same.

Once you're in the water the air is going to the highest point in either style.

I've used a BP/W, and yes, they're good, but I do think there is a lot of overblown hype.
I don't use one because a lot of my diving is overseas, and I tend to rent a BCD, and BP/W is hard to come by.
A good diver is a good diver regardless of the equipment they're using.
Or am I missing something obvious?
Gear doesn't beat skill.