Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

[soggybadger]

I see diving a little bit like motorcycling. Great fun in a group and safer ( arguably) but at the end of the day the rider is still responsible for their own life. But when you take it to the edge ( not over) dialing in your full skill and attention then it becomes a whole new animal.

 

[Ayisha]

Just do it. It works best.

I actually didn't ask why they didn't like the bungie near the top of the tank, but that would have been a good question. I suspect it might be because the bungie might be less secure or roll whereas an elastic retainer band would stay in position, but I'm not sure.

Regarding re-stowing, what I took was a stage bottle workshop, so since the stage was used at the beginning of the dive, it would necessarily be re-stowed. Using the bottle as a pony, you could choose to exit the water breathing off the pony or go back to your main tank and re-stow your pony reg.

 

[Ayisha]

Your system is very good, but it's failing is that requires you to dive with another similarly trained diver or it falls apart.

If you were to dive, for example with a non GUE buddy how would you fair?, Or if you were to dive say in my local waters (warm, clearish but big currents) would your standardised system still hold up?

Actually, it doesn't require a GUE diver to dive with another similarly trained diver. It recommends that a GUE diver dive with a safe diver. Someone who adheres to safe practices and is a good buddy.

If your question is a general one, I have many non-GUE dive buddies. They are safe, conscientious, capable divers, aware of their surroundings and their gas supply and they always maintain buddy contact. Like minded buddies do not require the same training or equipment, they just need to be aware of each other and their surroundings.

Warm and big currents wouldn't affect things since we dive in many parts of the world, warm, cold, high vis, low vis, currents, surge, surf, all areas have their challenges and nuances. Here of course we have rivers with swift currents and low to medium viz. You learn to make the buddy system work in many types of situations.

 

[Steelyeyes]

I see a few people diving ponies here in Puget Sound. One of them is my son. He was trained as a commercial diver and idea of always having a bailout bottle was something he was used to. He lives at a marina and will do small salvage and recovery dives solo so the pony is just a good idea.

My wife and I have pony bottles and regulators but haven't incorporated them into our set up yet. When we do the plan is to switch to the pony for every safety stop and finish the dive from there on the pony. It will keep us familiar with the process so you don't have to figure out more than you have to under stress.

 

[Ayisha]

For me, a solution that involves simply diving with a like-minded buddy wins out over carrying yet another tank on what is supposed to be a fun, enjoyable dive. We're not talking tec dives here--at least I don't think we are. (I include reg-freezing temperatures under tec dives.)

Reg freezing temperatures are not necessarily tec dives. What is standard rec diving is different in different parts of the world. I did my o/w cert in 39F/4C, and that was the first week of June in Tobermory, Ontario. I was dressed for it. My exposure protection fit well and I was fine. That is pretty common for people who live in Southern Ontario. If you dive from May to November, those are the temps you will get on each end of that time frame. That's not even including diving in freezing temps or ice diving in the winter months. Anyone who dives in the Great Lakes even in the summer is subject to potentially reg-freezing temps, and they're not necessarily tech divers.

 

[Gareth J]

I said long ago that I would consider a pony if I were going to dive solo or something along those lines. However, the lack of standardization doesn't sit well with me, and I suppose that was the gist of my comment you were replying to. Who am I-- a relatively new diver--to experiment around to try to find out what is "best" when so many thousands of divers before me have already been working on this problem for decades? I'm not sure there is enough information out there to tell me all I need to know about incorporating a pony into my diving in a way that really does improve my safety. Maybe there is--"it's not rocket science." Maybe there isn't--"I don't know what I don't know." As someone pointed out, there isn't a lot of formal training available, and different people--even instructors--seem to have somewhat different ideas about ponies. I'm not sure what the training that is available is based on, but I get the impression it isn't based on the accumulated decades of experience of a group of highly skilled divers. Not to go around in circles here, but if anything, I get the impression that a whole lot of the really experienced, really skilled divers are not using ponies.

I cut the above from your post because I wanted the context, but the section in bold I don't really agree with.

One of the reasons I see fewer ponies now than I used to, is because more divers are on twinsets.

A second point is the condition under which you dive. In the UK, the water is generally cold, especially in the winter, and especially in freshwater.
Some one constant risk (despite improvements in regulators), is free flow.
A lot of UK instructors, teaching basic scuba, will use 'similar kit' i.e not a twinset. This group in particular tend to use ponies. Why?, because the water is cold, the risk of free flow high, and the buddy may well not be qualified. They are 100% redundent in the event of a regulator failure.
Those in the UK that are experienced, but don't dive twinsets are the most likely to still carry a pony for the vast majority of their diving.

In my mind, where risk factors are higher, but twinsets are not frequently seen, then you are more likely to see a pony. i.e cold(er) water, where the underwater visability is variable (poor). Where the divers are deep(ish), (sub 20m), where they may include incur minimal decompression, or where they may be entering or diving wrecks (no clear surface or risk of no clear surface).
All of the above factors tick boxes for the UK

 

[Gareth J]

First, I'm known as DIR friendly, but not a practitioner.

From my understanding of GUE's teaching, it does exactly that. Their mindset is that your buddy is carrying YOUR emergency gas and you are carrying his/hers. That emergency gas load is sized according to both the needy diver's SAC(RMV) and the dive at hand. Thus, both of you are obliged to remain in proximity throughout the dive.

They strive to be a highly disciplined lot. So maybe think of it as your DIR buddy IS your pony, among other things.

I just can't get into "joined at the hip" diving. Just not me. I'm much more NQR. (not quite right, but trying...)

I had to smile at the section of your post in bold. There was a thread running about how dangerous is it was that CCR divers would consider team bailout. The big complaint being that you where reliant on a buddy for emergency gas in the case of a failure, the dive shouldn't be done if you couldn't carry all the gas yourself.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
One of the reasons I see fewer ponies now than I used to, is because more divers are on twinsets.
. . .
A lot of UK instructors, teaching basic scuba, will use 'similar kit' i.e not a twinset. This group in particular tend to use ponies. Why?, because the water is cold, the risk of free flow high, and the buddy may well not be qualified. They are 100% redundent in the event of a regulator failure.
Those in the UK that are experienced, but don't dive twinsets are the most likely to still carry a pony for the vast majority of their diving.

In my mind, where risk factors are higher, but twinsets are not frequently seen, then you are more likely to see a pony. i.e cold(er) water, where the underwater visability is variable (poor). Where the divers are deep(ish), (sub 20m), where they may include incur minimal decompression, or where they may be entering or diving wrecks (no clear surface or risk of no clear surface).
All of the above factors tick boxes for the UK

I understand completely, and I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you. I can't speak for others, so all I can say is that if I were to dive in the UK, I would use a twinset, not a pony, for the peace of mind. To me, those conditions are nothing to fool around with. A pony MIGHT work fine, IF one manages to tick all the boxes effectively: configuration, training, practice, etc. However, a twinset and a little training in dealing with failures is the more standard tool to deal with those conditions. That kind of training is so standardized and so widely available, why resort to a pony except to avoid the inconvenience/cost of a twinset? Sometimes, the kind of dives one wants to do just call for a little more inconvenience and cost.

You may be "more likely to see a pony" than a twinset, but should it be that way? Are some people simply taking the easier, less expensive route when the obvious tool for those conditions is the tried-and-true twinset configuration? You say that you are seeing more divers on twinsets and fewer divers on ponies. I would interpret that as meaning more divers are seeing the light and striving to dive these conditions with the better tool for the job, despite the cost and inconvenience.

 

[Gareth J]

I understand completely, and I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you. I can't speak for others, so all I can say is that if I were to dive in the UK, I would use a twinset, not a pony, for the peace of mind. To me, those conditions are nothing to fool around with. A pony MIGHT work fine, IF one manages to tick all the boxes effectively: configuration, training, practice, etc. However, a twinset and a little training in dealing with failures is the more standard tool to deal with those conditions. That kind of training is so standardized and so widely available, why resort to a pony except to avoid the inconvenience/cost of a twinset? Sometimes, the kind of dives one wants to do just call for a little more inconvenience and cost.

You may be "more likely to see a pony" than a twinset, but should it be that way? Are some people simply taking the easier, less expensive route when the obvious tool for those conditions is the tried-and-true twinset configuration? You say that you are seeing more divers on twinsets and fewer divers on ponies. I would interpret that as meaning more divers are seeing the light and striving to dive these conditions with the better tool for the job, despite the cost and inconvenience.

I don't really disagree. I generally prefer twinsets. The last 20 years have seen twinsets almost become the preferred equipment. At the same time, a larger proportion of divers are diving deeper and longer. One nice thing about a single 12l cylinder, it does stop people becoming over ambitious, they are far less likely to put themselves in a position of over running there NDL.

There are times I choose to use a pony.
Occasionally teaching, although the argument that you should use exactly the same kit as the student isn't always sensible or realistic.
Long surface walks, or beach entry's. I have learnt my lesson on carrying a set of 12's across rocks or a long way.
Rib diving. Where boat space is a premium, and the dives are shallow. Even large day boats, where you have two dives, means you are decanting gas for the second dive.

Sometimes it is nice to be in the water with a nice light kit configuration, rather than a big twinset or CCR. (Although a nice set of twin 7's would fit the bill perfectly).

I think I am arguing, that the addition of a pony is far preferred over just a single cylinder.
Also where you are and what you are doing significantly effects the availability and the requirement.
Most resort instructors/guides/DM's don't dive a twinset, just a single cylinder. Carrying a pony would be sensible - redundant air, additional gas in case a customer run's low, minimal additional weight or inconvenience.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
There are times I choose to use a pony.
Occasionally teaching, although the argument that you should use exactly the same kit as the student isn't always sensible or realistic.
Long surface walks, or beach entry's. I have learnt my lesson on carrying a set of 12's across rocks or a long way.
Rib diving. Where boat space is a premium, and the dives are shallow. Even large day boats, where you have two dives, means you are decanting gas for the second dive.

Ponies clearly seem to have uses. What keeps bringing me back to this thread, however, is the notion that a pony should be the go-to solution for every diver who feels uneasy about the conditions, his buddy, or something else about the dive.

Sometimes it is nice to be in the water with a nice light kit configuration, rather than a big twinset or CCR. (Although a nice set of twin 7's would fit the bill perfectly).

Isn't that why you have cheap flights to the Red Sea and Thailand?