Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

[Lorenzoid]

Do any of you who dive in near-freezing water use H-valves? I suppose a pony is more versatile, since you can use a rental tank with a normal valve.

What's the deal with H-Valves?

 

[2airishuman]

I put some on my cylinders and tried very hard to like them for six months. I sold them on eBay. Good riddance.

They pose problems for cylinder handling topside. They pose hose routing and reg placement problems. An H-valve setup would be my last choice for redundant gas, after a twinset or a pony.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I put some on my cylinders and tried very hard to like them for six months. I sold them on eBay. Good riddance.

They pose problems for cylinder handling topside. They pose hose routing and reg placement problems. An H-valve setup would be my last choice for redundant gas, after a twinset or a pony.

Yes, I recall your post in the that H-valve thread I included a link to above.

A comment in that thread mentioned that some cold-water sites in Europe require divers to use an H-valve. One would think a pony would be the better option.

 

[Kharon]

I put some on my cylinders and tried very hard to like them for six months. I sold them on eBay. Good riddance.

They pose problems for cylinder handling topside. They pose hose routing and reg placement problems. An H-valve setup would be my last choice for redundant gas, after a twinset or a pony.

No problems if you sling a pony properly rather than putting them on your cylinder.

 

[Anthony Jones]

I rarely see one in NC unless NOAA divers are on a mission. I believe their "rules" require one. Went on a ride out with them a few month ago to set some lionfish traps. All the NOAA divers had pony bottles. One kid saw I didn't have one and asked me if I wanted one. I told him no thanks and he acted all astonished that someone would actually dive without one.

 

[Gareth J]

I rarely see one in NC unless NOAA divers are on a mission. I believe their "rules" require one. Went on a ride out with them a few month ago to set some lionfish traps. All the NOAA divers had pony bottles. One kid saw I didn't have one and asked me if I wanted one. I told him no thanks and he acted all astonished that someone would actually dive without one.

If you have been diving with independent redundancy, (twinset, stage or pony,) then you become very conscious of your vulnerability when you are not carrying independent bailout. Especially, if that redundancy has been used in anger.

I assume that, like many countries, the USA specific requirements if you are 'diving at work'.
The risk analysis and method statement probably require NOAA personal to carry some form of independent bailout.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Although this thread has almost run it course, I'll put one other thought out there for people to consider.

When I'm taking a con ed course, I always brief that we'll be doing a skills refresher on dive 1. Mask clear, reg retrieval ( done while diving not stationary) and OOA. Top side I run through the skills to make sure they are refreshed (most look blankly when you ask them to remember OOA0

At some point during the dive (some time after the first 2) I start shaking their BCD and give them the sign I'm OOA

The responses are something like this

20% give an acceptable response, donate, keep buoyant and manage their buddy

60% faff, struggle to donate their alt (from the perfect place they've stored it) lose buoyancy, don't control nor assist etc

20% make such a mess I have to continue breathing from my own reg.

I just hover there, calmly evaluating and waiting. If I were a truly panicked OOA .....

Some will instantly say, their instructor was bad (I happen to know some of the instructors who've taught them and know that not to be true). Generally the reason is, post OW they just forget, or don't even mentally run through the skill.

Most of these are "good divers" in that they are good buddies during the dive - but when it all goes pear shaped 80% not so much.

I which of the categories do people here think they fall into, ( I wonder how many would fall into a different one in practice)

Carrying a pony for me, means I can handle my own situation should I have a problem, and then with the buddy call the dive - its less stressful for all.

 

[Gareth J]

Although this thread has almost run it course, I'll put one other thought out there for people to consider.

When I'm taking a con ed course, I always brief that we'll be doing a skills refresher on dive 1. Mask clear, reg retrieval ( done while diving not stationary) and OOA. Top side I run through the skills to make sure they are refreshed (most look blankly when you ask them to remember OOA0

At some point during the dive (some time after the first 2) I start shaking their BCD and give them the sign I'm OOA

The responses are something like this

20% give an acceptable response, donate, keep buoyant and manage their buddy

60% faff, struggle to donate their alt (from the perfect place they've stored it) lose buoyancy, don't control nor assist etc

20% make such a mess I have to continue breathing from my own reg.

I just hover there, calmly evaluating and waiting. If I were a truly panicked OOA .....

Some will instantly say, their instructor was bad (I happen to know some of the instructors who've taught them and know that not to be true). Generally the reason is, post OW they just forget, or don't even mentally run through the skill.

Most of these are "good divers" in that they are good buddies during the dive - but when it all goes pear shaped 80% not so much.

I which of the categories do people here think they fall into, ( I wonder how many would fall into a different one in practice)

Carrying a pony for me, means I can handle my own situation should I have a problem, and then with the buddy call the dive - its less stressful for all.

Agreed with all of our analysis. As you say, many divers, seldom, if ever attempt to deploy a Alternate (Octopus), once they have completed 'training', especially those that dive infrequently.


One of the points I made earlier in the tread, was conditions and experience drive the use of twinsets and pony's.

In the UK the visibility is variable (from 20m - 2cm [90ft-3/4"]), so relying on a buddy is not always great. That and the additional issues of cold water diving.

One of things as an instructor, was carrying a pony or a twinset meant I didn't have to worry about the competence of the student.

One other slight advantage in the UK, because of the club ethos, a large percentage of my regular buddies are instructors, and are regularly teaching (therefore practicing) OOA procedures.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I've had to share air on three occasions. Twice I shared an alternate just to extend out bottom time enough to swim to the exit rather than swim on the surface. Only once when a buddy went OOA. That diver is the only diver I know who uses a pony. He uses it to extend his dives. On that particular dive he sucked down his pony before realizing he didn't save enough in his main tank. Because of that dive and the time he drained his pony and got two inches of water in it I no longer allow a pony on my boat.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... wouldn't it be better to no longer allow stupid divers on your boat?

But it's often the case that equipment gets "banned" because someone misuses it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)