Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

[MaxBottomtime]

Exactly. I understand why someone would want a pony, but I would hope they could go the rest of their lives without ever using it. I minimize OOA risk by maintaining my regs, checking hoses and O-rings and watching my spg frequently. That doesn't guarantee that a problem will never occur but there should never be a reason for a diver to go OOA.

 

[Kharon]

... It's just been my experience over the last 16 years that scuba gear (especially if you buy the good stuff) is so reliable I've just never needed one. ..

Yep. I never intend to need my pony. My gear is always in top shape (I do my own maintenance) and I feel I can totally depend on it not to fail. I watch my air carefully and dive conservatively.

Do I carry my pony? On every dive no matter how shallow. I won't ever need to use it - till I do. It's a small addition to carry. I'd rather have it and never need it than need it and not have it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Exactly. I understand why someone would want a pony, but I would hope they could go the rest of their lives without ever using it. I minimize OOA risk by maintaining my regs, checking hoses and O-rings and watching my spg frequently. That doesn't guarantee that a problem will never occur but there should never be a reason for a diver to go OOA.

Most OOAs are not due to malfunctioning equipment ... they're due to a malfunctioning attention span, particularly by people who are used to just jumping in the water and assuming that they will know when it's time to begin their ascent or turnaround toward shore. You can reduce that with a bit of arithmetic prior to the dive by making sure that you're carrying adequate gas for the dive plan ... but that also means you need to stick to the dive plan.

People are routinely taught this stuff in their OW class ... most either neglect to use it or don't really understand what they're being taught and why it matters ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lorenzoid]

Yep. I never intend to need my pony. My gear is always in top shape (I do my own maintenance) and I feel I can totally depend on it not to fail. I watch my air carefully and dive conservatively.

Do I carry my pony? On every dive no matter how shallow. I won't ever need to use it - till I do. It's a small addition to carry. I'd rather have it and never need it than need it and not have it.

I don't see carrying a pony on all dives as "a small addition." It needs to be donned and doffed, kept filled, kept in hydro and visual, tested, practiced with, etc. To me, that's not an insignificant amount of stuff to do, in comparison with the alternatives, which may involve a combination of things mentioned earlier in this thread, such as always diving with a reliable, similarly trained buddy, and/or diving conservatively (or even more conservatively).

So, if you estimate that because of your gear maintenance, conservative diving, and good skills in general, you might genuinely need to use the pony only once out of every, I dunno, one-thousand dives, is the hassle worth it? At my rate, I won't hit my thousandth dive for another ten years. And I would think that the more conservatively I dive, the higher that number of dives would become. If I'm diving so conservatively that all I do are 50-minute bimbles on 50-foot tropical reefs, maybe I could do 10,000 of those without ever needing emergency gas from a pony. Whatever the actual number, I'm estimating it's pretty high. Seems to me it's a continuum--there is no bright line--and we all just have to weigh the likelihood in our heads based on our individual circumstances.

To me, the quest is to find the least-intrusive means that will keep me safe within some statistical estimate, given how I dive. There are lots of safety things I could employ--for example, I could carry a PLB on every dive, or I could test every tank for carbon monoxide--but I don't because I weighed the value and decided the potential benefit isn't worth the hassle. I know there are divers who always carry a PLB, divers who always test for CO, etc. Given the kind of diving I do, testing every tank for CO would probably, statistically speaking, improve my safety more than diving with a pony. (No near-freezing water for me, thanks.)

 

[uncfnp]

If I'm diving so conservatively that all I do are 50-minute bimbles on 50-foot tropical reefs, maybe I could do 10,000 of those without ever needing emergency gas from a pony

For you, since you rely on your buddy for redundancy, the question would be would you do these dives without a buddy?

For me, I dive with my buddy, solo with a pony redundancy or dives within a profile that I feel confident (right or wrong) that I can cesa.

 

[Lorenzoid]

For you, since you rely on your buddy for redundancy, the question would be would you do these dives without a buddy?

No. I strive to do every dive essentially the same way, for the sake of consistency. IF I were to decide to take a pony, I think I would be in the camp of people like Kharon who take it on every dive, no matter what.

 

[2airishuman]

I don't see carrying a pony on all dives as "a small addition." It needs to be donned and doffed, kept filled, kept in hydro and visual, tested, practiced with, etc. To me, that's not an insignificant amount of stuff to do, in comparison with the alternatives, which may involve a combination of things mentioned earlier in this thread, such as always diving with a reliable, similarly trained buddy, and/or diving conservatively (or even more conservatively).

It is my experience that dive buddies require more maintenance than pony bottles.

So, if you estimate that because of your gear maintenance, conservative diving, and good skills in general, you might genuinely need to use the pony only once out of every, I dunno, one-thousand dives, is the hassle worth it?

Probably closer to one in 10,000 dives. It's a big deal to me to conduct my dives prudently. I don't think it's prudent to accept a 1:10,000 risk when an easy mitigation is so readily available.

Given the kind of diving I do, testing every tank for CO would probably, statistically speaking, improve my safety more than diving with a pony. (No near-freezing water for me, thanks.)

You have to decide for yourself.

For me, I dive with my buddy, solo with a pony redundancy or dives within a profile that I feel confident (right or wrong) that I can cesa.

This.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It is my experience that dive buddies require more maintenance than pony bottles.

I might have thought that at one time, too.

It doesn't have to be that way, though.

I don't think it's prudent to accept a 1:10,000 risk when an easy mitigation is so readily available.

We all seem to agree on that.

To me, less equipment and more training is easier mitigation than more equipment. But I can appreciate how others might feel differently.

 

[Storker]

For really benign dives, I enjoy the freedom of using a single tank

Two small words: Rec twinsets. Between 30% and 50% of the divers I dive with use those. Typically, they're using twin 8.5Lx232 bar, twin 7Lx300 bar or twin 6Lx300bar, which translates roughly to twin 60s or twin 70s in US units. I don't have the impression that those guys are particularly more encumbered by their rigs than I am in my single 10Lx300bar (steel 100).

I doubt, however, that many of them are able to perform a manifold shutdown without the aid of their buddy since they're rec divers, not tech divers. OTOH, I have yet to see a 1st stage freeflow, even in water down to 4-6C (39-43F), possibly since almost everyone uses a membrane 1st stage (typically an Apeks).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No. I strive to do every dive essentially the same way, for the sake of consistency. IF I were to decide to take a pony, I think I would be in the camp of people like Kharon who take it on every dive, no matter what.

That's a valid approach for some people, but for many of us it offers us fewer options than we'd like. I tend to vary my gear based on the expected dive profile, conditions, and circumstances. It could be single-tank, no pony; single-tank pony; or dual-tank, sidemount ... depending on whether I was solo or diving as part of a team, boat dive, shore dive, calm conditions, rough conditions, deep, shallow or based on how long I wanted to stay down and whether or not I anticipated a deco obligation.

I get the whole muscle-memory thing ... but having gone that route for a time I found it limited my choices. And at my age I tend to rely more on my brain than my muscles anyway ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)