Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

[MaxBottomtime]

If I knew others who used ponies correctly it would be a diver problem. Since he is the only one I know using a pony I eliminate the problem and still allow him to dive. It's not fair but we have a small boat and wish to keep things simple.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Your choice mate, but you still have to deal with a guy who's too stupid to keep himself from OOA ... even when he's carrying a backup air supply. What difference will it make next time he runs out of air? You'll still have to bail him out ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[maj2]

I have a pony, and I do carry it on dives below 60ft and while ice diving.
I do not bother bringing it on warm-water vacations though.

 

[Gareth J]

If I knew others who used ponies correctly it would be a diver problem. Since he is the only one I know using a pony I eliminate the problem and still allow him to dive. It's not fair but we have a small boat and wish to keep things simple.

Hmm - I've come across similar attitudes from skipper's in the past

1. No O2 sets - they're dangerous and it might start a fire.
2. No twinsets - they're heavy and they damage the boat.
3. No Nitrox - its dangerous you might go to deep
4. No CCR's - people die with them.

We always carry an O2 set, often 2, a lot of the group use twinsets...and Nitrox, quite a few of us uses CCR's.
Funnily enough, the boats we use are happy, and we spend a lot on boats in a year. A large number of the boats we use we are 'repeat customers' and they are the boats that are always full so they can afford to bump you.

Divers make mistakes -
They run out of air (how?).
They step off the boat with the drysuit open!
They step off the boat without a weight belt - or with the air turned off (buddy check?)
They step off without fins!

It is very seldom the fault of the equipment, its normally an error by an individual. Hopefully, the result is nothing worse than embarrassment for the individual concerned and that they have learnt enough not to repeat the mistake. I would like to say that others learn from the individuals mistake, but sadly, we see the same errors repeated again and again.

Gareth

 

[markmud]

I've had to share air on three occasions. Twice I shared an alternate just to extend out bottom time enough to swim to the exit rather than swim on the surface. Only once when a buddy went OOA. That diver is the only diver I know who uses a pony. He uses it to extend his dives. On that particular dive he sucked down his pony before realizing he didn't save enough in his main tank. Because of that dive and the time he drained his pony and got two inches of water in it I no longer allow a pony on my boat.

Hi Max,

I am not trying to flame you or your friend; however, I have some observations based on little fact (sorry about that):

I don't think you banned a pony rig, I think you banned a stage bottle. I my lexicon (solo and tech 40 certified--not original thoughts on my part) a pony bottle that is used to extend bottom time or facilitate a diver who is not trim, not weighted properly, and not physically fit, is a stage bottle. Maybe he should take some classes in buoyancy, tech 40, and solo to learn how to use his equipment properly? That last paragraph was a narrative...not a declarative statement.

Yes, or No? Please think about it, would your OOA friend have the issue if he were better trained, am I wrong?

I rarely see one in NC unless NOAA divers are on a mission. I believe their "rules" require one. Went on a ride out with them a few month ago to set some lionfish traps. All the NOAA divers had pony bottles. One kid saw I didn't have one and asked me if I wanted one. I told him no thanks and he acted all astonished that someone would actually dive without one.

Hi Anthony,
I was a professional mariner in my early life and was engrained in how important redundancy is...redundancy that you control for yourself. You never know when something is going to fail. Stuff all of the sudden just happens, especially on the ocean!

... wouldn't it be better to no longer allow stupid divers on your boat?

But it's often the case that equipment gets "banned" because someone misuses it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Hi Bob,
So profound while using our language so sparingly!

markm

 

[Anthony Jones]

I was a professional mariner in my early life and was engrained in how important redundancy is...redundancy that you control for yourself. You never know when something is going to fail. Stuff all of the sudden just happens!

I certainly do see it's benefit. It's just been my experience over the last 16 years that scuba gear (especially if you buy the good stuff) is so reliable I've just never needed one. I don't have any issues with NOAAs rule or people who want to use one. It's a great idea. I just never thought the cost of one and the added weight/maintenance/loss of streamline underwater justified my need. My steel 100 already weights about 80 lbs full with the reg on it and I don't relish the idea of strapping another 5 lbs to it.

It gets to a point that if I carried everything people recommend for me not to die, I'd be a job and not fun. Extra flashlight, SMB, whistle, signal mirror, snorkel, spare computer, etc etc. Some of the charter cap's around here require a SMB on their boat. My BC pockets are already full of enough crap I've never needed or used.

I ditched the snorkel beginning of this year because when spear fishing and I shoot, the line sometimes gets tangled in it and the prey might snatch my mask off when the line goes taught and he's wrapped it around the snorkel which is connected to my mask. For 6 months afterwards it felt like I was committing a felony when I didn't take the snorkel. It finally dawned on me that in a year I haven't ever encountered that "dive in rough choppy water where I have to swim on the surface and need it". Now I don't even miss it but I do haul it along in the dive bag.

If the surface is too rough and choppy to swim in without a snorkel, chances are I'm not gonna be diving that day anyhow.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Hmm - I've come across similar attitudes from skipper's in the past

1. No O2 sets - they're dangerous and it might start a fire.
2. No twinsets - they're heavy and they damage the boat.
3. No Nitrox - its dangerous you might go to deep
4. No CCR's - people die with them.

We always carry an O2 set, often 2, a lot of the group use twinsets...and Nitrox, quite a few of us uses CCR's.
Funnily enough, the boats we use are happy, and we spend a lot on boats in a year. A large number of the boats we use we are 'repeat customers' and they are the boats that are always full so they can afford to bump you.

Divers make mistakes -
They run out of air (how?).
They step off the boat with the drysuit open!
They step off the boat without a weight belt - or with the air turned off (buddy check?)
They step off without fins!

It is very seldom the fault of the equipment, its normally an error by an individual. Hopefully, the result is nothing worse than embarrassment for the individual concerned and that they have learnt enough not to repeat the mistake. I would like to say that others learn from the individuals mistake, but sadly, we see the same errors repeated again and again.

Gareth

Hi Max,

I am not trying to flame you or your friend; however, I have some observations based on little fact (sorry about that):

I don't think you banned a pony rig, I think you banned a stage bottle. I my lexicon (solo and tech 40 certified--not original thoughts on my part) a pony bottle that is used to extend bottom time or facilitate a diver who is not trim, not weighted properly, and not physically fit, is a stage bottle. Maybe he should take some classes in buoyancy, tech 40, and solo to learn how to use his equipment properly? That last paragraph was a narrative...not a declarative statement.

Yes, or No? Please think about it, would your OOA friend have the issue if he were better trained, am I wrong?



Hi Anthony,
I was a professional mariner in my early life and was engrained in how important redundancy is...redundancy that you control for yourself. You never know when something is going to fail. Stuff all of the sudden just happens, especially on the ocean!



Hi Bob,
So profound while using our language so sparingly!

markm

My buddies and I have dived twins with multiple stages and also CCR from my boat for many years. We carry O2 and usually dive nitrox, sometimes trimix. The buddy in question uses a 13cu ft pony mounted on his tank. He chooses to use it to extend his dives while I think a pony should be for emergency bailout only. I like diving with him and having him on the boat but I don't want to have problems with a diver misusing equipment so I told him to leave the pony home. My boat, my rules.

 

[markmud]

I certainly do see it's benefit. It's just been my experience over the last 16 years that scuba gear (especially if you buy the good stuff) is so reliable I've just never needed one. I don't have any issues with NOAAs rule or people who want to use one. It's a great idea. I just never thought the cost of one and the added weight/maintenance/loss of streamline underwater justified my need. My steel 100 already weights about 80 lbs full with the reg on it and I don't relish the idea of strapping another 5 lbs to it.

It gets to a point that if I carried everything people recommend for me not to die, I'd be a job and not fun. Extra flashlight, SMB, whistle, signal mirror, snorkel, spare computer, etc etc. Some of the charter cap's around here require a SMB on their boat. My BC pockets are already full of enough crap I've never needed or used.

I ditched the snorkel beginning of this year because when spear fishing and I shoot, the line sometimes gets tangled in it and the prey might snatch my mask off when the line goes taught and he's wrapped it around the snorkel which is connected to my mask. For 6 months afterwards it felt like I was committing a felony when I didn't take the snorkel. It finally dawned on me that in a year I haven't ever encountered that "dive in rough choppy water where I have to swim on the surface and need it". Now I don't even miss it but I do haul it along in the dive bag.

If the surface is too rough and choppy to swim in, chances are I'm not gonna be diving that day anyhow.

Hi Anthony,

Yeah, I here ya. Streamlining is an issue I deal with also. Your steel 100 is one heavy some-b-word. You piqued my curiosity so I weighed one of my full PST 100's. It weighs 46.3 lbs full. Yeah, for sure, just what you need is more weight.
We all make compromises, I hope your compromises continue to work well for you.

"If the surface is too rough and choppy to swim in, chances are I'm not gonna be diving that day anyhow."

I don't pack a snorkel either. I am a fair weather diver. No "Victory at Sea" stuff for me anymore.

I enjoyed the conversation.
markm

 

[markmud]

My buddies and I have dived twins with multiple stages and also CCR from my boat for many years. We carry O2 and usually dive nitrox, sometimes trimix. The buddy in question uses a 13cu ft pony mounted on his tank. He chooses to use it to extend his dives while I think a pony should be for emergency bailout only. I like diving with him and having him on the boat but I don't want to have problems with a diver misusing equipment so I told him to leave the pony home. My boat, my rules.

Thanks Max,

I enjoyed reading your response.

markm

 

[Gareth J]

My buddies and I have dived twins with multiple stages and also CCR from my boat for many years. We carry O2 and usually dive nitrox, sometimes trimix. The buddy in question uses a 13cu ft pony mounted on his tank. He chooses to use it to extend his dives while I think a pony should be for emergency bailout only. I like diving with him and having him on the boat but I don't want to have problems with a diver misusing equipment so I told him to leave the pony home. My boat, my rules.

We agree on the point - a pony is for bailout.
If you want to extend the dive then use a larger cylinder, a twinset or stages, (or dive shallower). i.e the right tool for the job.