The changing Scuba Industry
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StefinSB
Contributor
Not sure where you get this from. Every drop zone in California that I have jumped has had more than one instructor. With a few exceptions they all had a weekday job. I am also not sure how the instructor gets a couple of hundred per jump if a jump costs the student about $190. Then you deduct cost for the plane ride, rig rental, etc. I.e. The jump master does not pocket a couple hundred per jump .....
OP
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Maybe key west is a tighter market...
ivorynightfall
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I started a thread a couple days ago about how most liveaboards I've been on in my 20s have been full of older (50+ people) and if there were any that were younger. Someone pointed out it is a hallmark of the entire sport, and it got me thinking. I started diving in Hawaii when I was bored at a resort with my friends and decided to get a groupon for a diving certification. I liked it enough to buy a prescription mask that I still own. Since then I've been on 4+ liveaboards and multiple dives throughout Sipadan, Great Barrier Reef, Malapascua, Tulum, Turks and Caicos and now Maldives. The last two have been with Explorer, which while a great company I will never dive with again if I dive again. This is why:
1) culture clash of existing divers - Any young people who start diving are overwhelmed with all the old and not entirely welcome diver community. There is a real clash of cultures. The only millennials who have money to dive are probably like me - young, liberal, work in hot industries (tech, finance). Apparently having started out in the Navy and for some reason I don't understand profilgated in the Midwest and more Republican states most old divers I've met are from Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Florida. Retired people in their 50-70s who cling to old ideas, are quite racist and sexist by my perspective (seriously this one dude Michael Ramsey on this boat called me a cockroach for being too aggressive - a quality that is prized in my current city of San Francisco - and something I'm convinced is due to racism/sexism - I'm an Asian female). They were in the military, run telemarketing firms (blergh), bankers, etc. nobody id ever meet or really gel with in real life. I've tried and I enjoy diving and I've met a couple amazing divers on my trips but there is something with the retired crowd that really reminds me of Trump supporters. And I bet a lot of them did. Also there is ageism in the tech industry so really I rarely meet anyone over the age of 45, and is argue techies are more likely to enjoy this sort of sport than finance types who want high luxury no effort.
2) not marketing to young people. We may prefer experiences, we want to rent and we want to do other things too. Why not let us? Dive boats can be used for so many things other than diving too. Nobody is marketing it this way which is why just 70 year olds go.
3) associated with old people - when I try to get my friends to go diving with me they generally say "aren't there a lot of old people?" I can't believe I hadn't thought of it before. They don't like the amount of equipment - barrier to entry is too high for millennials who want to try before they buy and want things now. They don't like how complicated everything is. Or how you have to fly somewhere tropical to see anything worthwhile. Or get in a dry suit which is worse. They want easy, fun things.
4) the sad state of the coral reefs. I hadn't realized the Maldives was as affected by coral bleaching until I got here. It is incredibly sad. It feels like walking through a graveyard to see the corals here. I remember my time diving the Great Barrier Reef 5 years ago or sipadan 6 years ago and they were amazing. I wonder if I'll ever see anything so beautiful again. I wonder if I keep diving the sadder I'll become about the sad state of the oceans reefs. It makes me reconsider my daily habits and how they contribute to climate change - and reconsider diving in general. What if the best dives are all behind me?
After diving now 6 years, I'm going to call it quits after this pretty disastrous Liveaboard with some incredibly boorish people I will be glad to never see again. Luckily I hadn't bought that much equipment - I just bought a dive computer >< - but in the interim I'll do some yoga, and enjoy my tech job perks.
1) culture clash of existing divers - Any young people who start diving are overwhelmed with all the old and not entirely welcome diver community. There is a real clash of cultures. The only millennials who have money to dive are probably like me - young, liberal, work in hot industries (tech, finance). Apparently having started out in the Navy and for some reason I don't understand profilgated in the Midwest and more Republican states most old divers I've met are from Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Florida. Retired people in their 50-70s who cling to old ideas, are quite racist and sexist by my perspective (seriously this one dude Michael Ramsey on this boat called me a cockroach for being too aggressive - a quality that is prized in my current city of San Francisco - and something I'm convinced is due to racism/sexism - I'm an Asian female). They were in the military, run telemarketing firms (blergh), bankers, etc. nobody id ever meet or really gel with in real life. I've tried and I enjoy diving and I've met a couple amazing divers on my trips but there is something with the retired crowd that really reminds me of Trump supporters. And I bet a lot of them did. Also there is ageism in the tech industry so really I rarely meet anyone over the age of 45, and is argue techies are more likely to enjoy this sort of sport than finance types who want high luxury no effort.
2) not marketing to young people. We may prefer experiences, we want to rent and we want to do other things too. Why not let us? Dive boats can be used for so many things other than diving too. Nobody is marketing it this way which is why just 70 year olds go.
3) associated with old people - when I try to get my friends to go diving with me they generally say "aren't there a lot of old people?" I can't believe I hadn't thought of it before. They don't like the amount of equipment - barrier to entry is too high for millennials who want to try before they buy and want things now. They don't like how complicated everything is. Or how you have to fly somewhere tropical to see anything worthwhile. Or get in a dry suit which is worse. They want easy, fun things.
4) the sad state of the coral reefs. I hadn't realized the Maldives was as affected by coral bleaching until I got here. It is incredibly sad. It feels like walking through a graveyard to see the corals here. I remember my time diving the Great Barrier Reef 5 years ago or sipadan 6 years ago and they were amazing. I wonder if I'll ever see anything so beautiful again. I wonder if I keep diving the sadder I'll become about the sad state of the oceans reefs. It makes me reconsider my daily habits and how they contribute to climate change - and reconsider diving in general. What if the best dives are all behind me?
After diving now 6 years, I'm going to call it quits after this pretty disastrous Liveaboard with some incredibly boorish people I will be glad to never see again. Luckily I hadn't bought that much equipment - I just bought a dive computer >< - but in the interim I'll do some yoga, and enjoy my tech job perks.
"Ageism,' 'sexism,' "military,' 'midwest,' 'Republican,' 'Trump supporters,' 'retired crowd'....Wow. I'd say you boarded that boat with a lot more baggage than just your gear. Good luck with Yoga. In your case, you'll need a lot of it.
“They don’t like how complicated it is. They want fun, easy things.”
Diving is an activity that can all too easily kill you. Complicated keeps you alive.
@ivorynightfall
So your friends don’t like tha they have to fly somewhere tropical to dive, yet they don’t want to dive at home in Cali since it requires a drysuit. Sheesh.
You’ve only been on liveaboads and are ready to quit, yet have appeared to ignore some reasonable suggestions in your thread to try a land based vacation that would likely have younger people.
I’m just shaking my head.
Diving is an activity that can all too easily kill you. Complicated keeps you alive.
@ivorynightfall
So your friends don’t like tha they have to fly somewhere tropical to dive, yet they don’t want to dive at home in Cali since it requires a drysuit. Sheesh.
You’ve only been on liveaboads and are ready to quit, yet have appeared to ignore some reasonable suggestions in your thread to try a land based vacation that would likely have younger people.
I’m just shaking my head.
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Bubblesong
Contributor
Oh. My. God. @ivorynightfall if you were flicking matches in a dry autumn woodland, you could not have started more fires than that post? Just for example, you can see something "worthwhile" by diving near the baby harbor seals in Boston!
But ask yourself, if you, and not all your techy young friends, find you are drawn to an activity that all draws Republican, Midwestern Trump supporters, maybe you should start house shopping in Iowa, and watching Fox, and just accept who you really are!
But ask yourself, if you, and not all your techy young friends, find you are drawn to an activity that all draws Republican, Midwestern Trump supporters, maybe you should start house shopping in Iowa, and watching Fox, and just accept who you really are!
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Wow. I think her observations are 100% legit. From her point of view. This is exactly how I see things going also. We are dinosaurs who drive diesel pickups and Lexii, and her generation has a Prius (or a Tesla if they want a really nice car) and wish the T went all the way to ZooMass, so they don’t have to drive at all.
And yes. There is one on every liveaboard. If you look around and can’t identify him/her, well then.
And yes. There is one on every liveaboard. If you look around and can’t identify him/her, well then.
drrich2
Contributor
The irony that conservatives are often criticized for prejudiced views, stereotyping and intolerance...oh, well. It's true people of any strong political leaning may prefer to abide by the old adage 'Birds of a feather flock together.' That said, on my 3 live-aboard trips, people weren't particularly outspoken about political or religious issues. They had views, but when you're part of a small group stuck on a boat at sea for a few days, doesn't seem the time to play a game of 'Where do we differ?'
In other words, I believe most people on a live-aboard will get along with you. Now, if you (speaking broadly, not specifically to an individual, and to most any polarized political or religious viewpoint) like to talk about your beliefs and be agreed with, that could be trouble.
That's an interesting point, and on further thought, there are some examples. The Cuan Law has been mentioned on the forum a number of times; some diving, water sports, scenic region (British Virgin Islands). But it's expensive, and IIRC, you're not going to rack up as high a dive count. Some of the Bahamas trips, like the AquaCat, stop at some islands to see pigs or feed iguanas. Perhaps that could be expanded in places? And of course, the granddaddy of multi-purpose wide appeal boating - the cruise ship. Some of the older, smaller ships are cheaper and hit multiple ports.
I suspect you're a 'city person.' Many people in the U.S. live in less populated areas where 'tech' and finance may not be locally big. Diving doesn't have to be highly expensive -hence Blackbeards, the Juliet...
Richard.
In other words, I believe most people on a live-aboard will get along with you. Now, if you (speaking broadly, not specifically to an individual, and to most any polarized political or religious viewpoint) like to talk about your beliefs and be agreed with, that could be trouble.
That's an interesting point, and on further thought, there are some examples. The Cuan Law has been mentioned on the forum a number of times; some diving, water sports, scenic region (British Virgin Islands). But it's expensive, and IIRC, you're not going to rack up as high a dive count. Some of the Bahamas trips, like the AquaCat, stop at some islands to see pigs or feed iguanas. Perhaps that could be expanded in places? And of course, the granddaddy of multi-purpose wide appeal boating - the cruise ship. Some of the older, smaller ships are cheaper and hit multiple ports.
I suspect you're a 'city person.' Many people in the U.S. live in less populated areas where 'tech' and finance may not be locally big. Diving doesn't have to be highly expensive -hence Blackbeards, the Juliet...
Richard.
While in your entire post gives me the impression you will for considerable time continue to be a person having difficulty getting along or making friends with people notably different from you and that generally cannot be helped other than by changes in how you adjust to such "others", you did peak my curiosity by your points 2 and 3:
So if your point 3 is true, then what might you suggest could an LOB, say in the Maldives do in their marketing and offerings to attract more young people as you describe them?
I mean your point 3 appears to lay out there is no way the people you describe would go there and yet in your point 2 you lament that the LOBs don't do anything to get them there?
What do you think the LOBs could / should offer to change that and yet fill the (dive) boat with divers?
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