How many students fail your course?

[boulderjohn]

tooting my horn and dont dive a rat. Got 100% on the test. Studied for five days before the test while on a tropical vacation. friends thought I was nuts. Dive master who graded it said she only saw one other person get 100 in over ten years and it was herself. Funny thing it was her boyfriend who certified me and he did not get a 100 either

tooting done, now just gotta stay alive on all my dives

I assume you are talking about the OW test. Did you have class sessions with the instructor before taking the test? I would guess that over the years, about 30% of my students scored 100%.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

I assume you are talking about the OW test. Did you have class sessions with the instructor before taking the test? I would guess that over the years, about 30% of my students scored 100%.

No I just bought the materials watched vid and read manual. Then went down to cabo and did my pool work right off the beach in front of "the office" margarita bar in 12ft of water. after all the dives I took the written test. Yea im guessing a real classroom environment is very different from vacation diver class.

And my instructor only almost killed me once on my dives so I really got my moneys worth. Funny thing when I told my AOW instructor he pulled up my instructor for OW in Cabo and said oh, his license is expired. And lucky for you it expired a couple months after you took the course....

I shouldnt joke about it too much it was an equipment failure that caused the problem and he did have me swim a hundred yards under water at 40ft deep without my mask, emergency ascent from 30ft on one breath of air, compass reading to head out about 100yds and get back to exact same spot, turned off tank so i know what running out of air feels like and wouldnt ya know it actually happened a couple dives later when air read 650 and was dead empty.

anyway here I am rambling again.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

To independent instructors who are selective about who to take as OW students: what is/are your criteria for selecting students? I know instructors who prefer teaching AOW or freediving because those courses are kinda sorta for people who have some sort of comfort in the water.

I teach small OW classes in the Puget Sound region. It is cold, dark, challenging, and not the kind of diving that the majority of people think of when they think of diving.

I'm looking at creating divers who are interested in becoming cold water divers and dive year round. Maybe at the end they decide cold water isn't for them, but I am clear that the water is cold, that I will do my best to make it as pleasant as possible, and that they are required to tell me when it stops being fun. That's the sign for us to reconvene later. Since I don't have a strict schedule, if we only get in one dive on some days, not a problem with me.

I just want people who want to give it a shot, who will speak up for any sort of displeasure, as I'm wasting my time and their time, if they are going to quit after getting certified. Some people are stubborn, and are self-driven and will push through. Great. But not everyone. Some may just stop feeling it, and I'll accommodate that. I just want them to return to the next dive day with determination. Some people get cold super quick. I'll give up my heated vest for them, as I teach only in dry suits. Hopefully they love diving and will invest in the equipment where they are comfortable for the diving they want to do.

So I'm looking for people with whom I can establish a good rapport and have good, honest communication. While it is challenging to dive in the Puget Sound, it shouldn't be torture.

Because I only have 2 students at a time, we can have flexibility in how the class goes. I have a specific structure in my course (4 days of open water dives with 2 required dives, plus a third dive each day for fun only, if they are warm enough).

 

[CLoP]

I teach small OW classes in the Puget Sound region. It is cold, dark, challenging,

I do love the hug from my 7mm

I do know another instructor from the PNW and he also says it's cold. He probably thinks California is the tropics hahaha

 

[TMHeimer]

I teach small OW classes in the Puget Sound region. It is cold, dark, challenging, and not the kind of diving that the majority of people think of when they think of diving.

I'm looking at creating divers who are interested in becoming cold water divers and dive year round. Maybe at the end they decide cold water isn't for them, but I am clear that the water is cold, that I will do my best to make it as pleasant as possible, and that they are required to tell me when it stops being fun. That's the sign for us to reconvene later. Since I don't have a strict schedule, if we only get in one dive on some days, not a problem with me.

I just want people who want to give it a shot, who will speak up for any sort of displeasure, as I'm wasting my time and their time, if they are going to quit after getting certified. Some people are stubborn, and are self-driven and will push through. Great. But not everyone. Some may just stop feeling it, and I'll accommodate that. I just want them to return to the next dive day with determination. Some people get cold super quick. I'll give up my heated vest for them, as I teach only in dry suits. Hopefully they love diving and will invest in the equipment where they are comfortable for the diving they want to do.

So I'm looking for people with whom I can establish a good rapport and have good, honest communication. While it is challenging to dive in the Puget Sound, it shouldn't be torture.

Because I only have 2 students at a time, we can have flexibility in how the class goes. I have a specific structure in my course (4 days of open water dives with 2 required dives, plus a third dive each day for fun only, if they are warm enough).

I hear the water temp. doesn't vary anywhere near as much on the West Coast as it does here with the seasons. Are you able to teach year round? Students diving wet?

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I hear the water temp. doesn't vary anywhere near as much on the West Coast as it does here with the seasons. Are you able to teach year round? Students diving wet?

Students dive wet year round, though the second dive is ugly. Shoot, I dove wet year round for years doing research.

It usually doesn't get below mid-40s in the water. But the air is another matter.....

Flip side is that summer water temperatures aren't much warmer.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I hear the water temp. doesn't vary anywhere near as much on the West Coast as it does here with the seasons. Are you able to teach year round? Students diving wet?

There is a 10ish degree F swing between summer and winter. We dive year round. I've gotten in the water when the air was in the teens and the water felt warm in contrast. It was rather unpleasant walking back up the beach in those temperatures. I'd rather boat dive in those kind of conditions.

Students dive wet year round, though the second dive is ugly. Shoot, I dove wet year round for years doing research.

Those students tend not to continue diving. I had a class with another instructor of 9 and a DM. One never got underwater, as she had a fear from childhood of dark water.

Of those 8, 4 dropped out after the first dive, as it was just a miserable day. One upgraded to a dry suit and finished the course later (my best ow student ever). The other 3 did referrals in warmer locations, but have returned to cold water diving, all with dry suits (I certified one, did a pool session for the start of another).

Students simply suffer in the second dive if they are in a wetsuit, and often towards the end of the first, and this is despite that I don't plant them on their knees, but keep them neutrally buoyant.

I've met one guy who dives in a shorty in summer. One of my students whom I taught in a wetsuit is perfectly fine year round. But that is atypical.

I have no problems admitting that I'm a wimp when it comes to temperature. Through my experience (limited to most of you) is that my dry suit students are much happier and are on average much more enthusiastic to continue cold water diving.

 

[Edward3c]

I rarely take a student through every lesson of a course, the club (BSAC) environment encourages tuition by a variety of instructors. That said, there is only one entry level candidate we would not sign-off. They were capable of performing all the skills individually, but couldn’t put the CBL rescue stages together to safely bring a casualty to the surface.

Each instructor spent many hours talking to the individual about the situation and whether there was another sport they could pursue. After 5 years this individual was still determined to become a diver.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

Question for instructors. Which agency do you teach for an%d how many of your students have not been able to pass your course? Thanks so much.

%
@CAPTAIN SINBAD, I am a little late to the party at answering your question, but here are my numbers over the last 30 years.

Agency- SSI 95% of my students pass Open Water. 5% give up, or are unable to meet the minimum standard.
Agency -PADI 95% of my students pass Open Water. 5% give up, or are unable to meet the minimum standard.
Agency -PDIC 75% of my students pass Open Water. 25% either give up or we cross them over to SSI or PADI to complete their course.
Agency -SEI 75% of my students pass Open Water. 25% either give up or we cross them over to SSI or PADI to complete their course.
Agency -CMAS 100% of my students that pass the SEI OpenWater Course receives an CMAS Open Water Scuba Certification.

These numbers are only for the Open Water Scuba Course, and are not 100% accurate. At the end of the day, most students who fail, the 5% in PADI and SSI, usually come back and continue training until they are able to meet the standard. Even the ones that give up, we coach into continuing their training, and most will eventually pass the Open Water Course. So with this being said, I would say it's closer to 98% of all Open Water Students pass in both SSI and PADI. With PDIC and SEI, we always issue dual certifications, as they are sister agencies, thus, CMAS is included as well. These classes are rare for us now, but the added skill sets and physics trip a lot of new students up. For the ones that can not grasp the academics or the skill sets, we refer them, or cross them over the either SSI or PADI, and we complete their certification that way. So these numbers are more realistically around the 98% as well.

I have found it interesting that the ones that completely give up, and I am unable to convince them to continue to train until they get it, are usually spouses of divers who were pressured to take scuba because their spouse did. In this industry we are trained to entice people to take scuba, but I find myself talking a lot of people out of it, after a short interview with them. As much as I dislike watching people give up, I understand the realities of what a person feels. I know there are things in my life that I tried, and immediately decide, NOPE, this is not for me.

Side note: The % of Public Safety Divers that I train and fail, are much higher. Needless to say, I have severely upset several Fire Departments, Police Departments, and Sheriff Departments over the years, including the departments that I have worked for and still currently serve, by failing the higher ups for not being able to meet the standards. I even had a chief of a Fire Department kick me out of his station because I refused to certify him with his firemen, because he failed the written exam, and thought he should pass just because he was the chief. After about a month he called wanting to know what he needed to do to get his Public Safety Certification, and I told him he had to pass. He never called me back.

 

[Steve_C]

%
@CAPTAIN SINBAD, I am a little late to the party at answering your question, but here are my numbers over the last 30 years.

Agency- SSI 95% of my students pass Open Water. 5% give up, or are unable to meet the minimum standard.
Agency -PADI 95% of my students pass Open Water. 5% give up, or are unable to meet the minimum standard.
Agency -PDIC 75% of my students pass Open Water. 25% either give up or we cross them over to SSI or PADI to complete their course.
Agency -SEI 75% of my students pass Open Water. 25% either give up or we cross them over to SSI or PADI to complete their course.
Agency -CMAS 100% of my students that pass the SEI OpenWater Course receives an CMAS Open Water Scuba Certification.

These numbers are only for the Open Water Scuba Course, and are not 100% accurate. At the end of the day, most students who fail, the 5% in PADI and SSI, usually come back and continue training until they are able to meet the standard. Even the ones that give up, we coach into continuing their training, and most will eventually pass the Open Water Course. So with this being said, I would say it's closer to 98% of all Open Water Students pass in both SSI and PADI. With PDIC and SEI, we always issue dual certifications, as they are sister agencies, thus, CMAS is included as well. These classes are rare for us now, but the added skill sets and physics trip a lot of new students up. For the ones that can not grasp the academics or the skill sets, we refer them, or cross them over the either SSI or PADI, and we complete their certification that way. So these numbers are more realistically around the 98% as well.

I have found it interesting that the ones that completely give up, and I am unable to convince them to continue to train until they get it, are usually spouses of divers who were pressured to take scuba because their spouse did. In this industry we are trained to entice people to take scuba, but I find myself talking a lot of people out of it, after a short interview with them. As much as I dislike watching people give up, I understand the realities of what a person feels. I know there are things in my life that I tried, and immediately decide, NOPE, this is not for me.

Side note: The % of Public Safety Divers that I train and fail, are much higher. Needless to say, I have severely upset several Fire Departments, Police Departments, and Sheriff Departments over the years, including the departments that I have worked for and still currently serve, by failing the higher ups for not being able to meet the standards. I even had a chief of a Fire Department kick me out of his station because I refused to certify him with his firemen, because he failed the written exam, and thought he should pass just because he was the chief. After about a month he called wanting to know what he needed to do to get his Public Safety Certification, and I told him he had to pass. He never called me back.

Very interesting. For the courses where you have 25% I would be interested in the breakdown as to how often it was physics and how often it was skills.