Which is exactly why I’ve been following this for 9 pages! To see the responses has been wonderful.
Which agency should I join if I wish to become an Elite Diver?
- Thread starter NAUI Wowie
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Which is exactly why I’ve been following this for 9 pages! To see the responses has been wonderful.
I think the best divers are the ones who have the ability to critique themselves honestly and be open about the mistakes and close calls they have have had and what needed to be done to prevent them.
On another thread one instructor said the students who were the harshest on themselves were generally better than the students who thought they had done perfectly.
It doesnt matter the agency, or the instructor - it comes from the student wanting to be an elite diver.
On another thread one instructor said the students who were the harshest on themselves were generally better than the students who thought they had done perfectly.
It doesnt matter the agency, or the instructor - it comes from the student wanting to be an elite diver.
- Messages
- 17,334
- Reaction score
- 13,743
- # of dives
- 100 - 199
Dan_P
Contributor
I'll reply on the premise that the phrase "Elite diver" by the OP meant to imply an "open-ended" training progression.
Neither PADI, SSI, NAUI, CMAS, BSAC or any other RSTC-adherant training organization is that, because the inconsistencies become too great to accomodate when the dive parameters are pushed.
That is, what you learn on day 1 stops being relevant at some point, as you progress.
The examples of this are myriad.
Personally, when I started learning to dive, it was within such a training paradigm, and frankly, I didn't appreciate having to buy a full new kit of equipment, and having to learn my dive technique all over again - which is why today I'm not teaching that way (that's a personal choice).
Generally, you can say that if you can get a certification with UTD for a certain set of parameters, you can comfortably dive within them afterwards - it's not like "getting a driver's licence" in which analogy you can't really dive to your certification level in comfort.
UTD, GUE and ISE are all DIR-based organizations.
I'll leave it to others to speak for GUE and ISE, and focus here on UTD:
The training path is designed with the end-goal in mind, so what you learn on day 1 becomes a building block for day 10.000. And the focus is on establishing a "Thinking Diver", i.e. establishing and expanding the diver's comfort zone in-water, heavily associated with gradually growing measurables such as bouyancy, trim, propulsion, positioning, increasingly complex problem solving, emergency response, etc.
Going into details about specific diving solutions, there are differences between GUE's, UTD's and ISE's approaches to questions like rebreather diving, decompression and sidemount - I think it's important to understand that in those discussions (which are all on a relatively "advanced" level), there are many links in the chain, and it's important to understand them all.
Neither PADI, SSI, NAUI, CMAS, BSAC or any other RSTC-adherant training organization is that, because the inconsistencies become too great to accomodate when the dive parameters are pushed.
That is, what you learn on day 1 stops being relevant at some point, as you progress.
The examples of this are myriad.
Personally, when I started learning to dive, it was within such a training paradigm, and frankly, I didn't appreciate having to buy a full new kit of equipment, and having to learn my dive technique all over again - which is why today I'm not teaching that way (that's a personal choice).
Generally, you can say that if you can get a certification with UTD for a certain set of parameters, you can comfortably dive within them afterwards - it's not like "getting a driver's licence" in which analogy you can't really dive to your certification level in comfort.
UTD, GUE and ISE are all DIR-based organizations.
I'll leave it to others to speak for GUE and ISE, and focus here on UTD:
The training path is designed with the end-goal in mind, so what you learn on day 1 becomes a building block for day 10.000. And the focus is on establishing a "Thinking Diver", i.e. establishing and expanding the diver's comfort zone in-water, heavily associated with gradually growing measurables such as bouyancy, trim, propulsion, positioning, increasingly complex problem solving, emergency response, etc.
Going into details about specific diving solutions, there are differences between GUE's, UTD's and ISE's approaches to questions like rebreather diving, decompression and sidemount - I think it's important to understand that in those discussions (which are all on a relatively "advanced" level), there are many links in the chain, and it's important to understand them all.
I think scuba diving like most sports resembles martial arts quite closely. there is lots of different styles and techniques and opinions and lots of persons who claim that there is only one "right way" to do things. also some open minded persons who understand the pros and cons of every technique and training and equipment setup and may borrow things from multiple styles to suit specific needs and will change the technique/setup immediately if needed.
the common thing in all martial arts being good balance and coordination and understanding the center of gravity and how human body moves around it efficiently. (in scuba diving--->buoyancy control and finning techniques)
approaches vary because the different styles have been developed for different uses ( for example street fighting vs. Japanese feodal wars) ....
one can not really say which scuba technique or equipment configuration is "RIGHT" without knowing the specific situation where it will be used and the person using it.
one of the fundamental issues of especially new DIR divers, I think, is specifically the attitude that 'there is only one safe and efficient equipment configuration for all possible diving scenarios and that is the basic Hogarthian rig with nothing extra added'
I personally think that it is a sign of a bad diver to strictly follow the manual and not think things through by yourself. I think that is specifically how people get hurt in the first place... not thinking with your own brain but just doing something other persons have said before without them knowing the situation you will be in. the whole DOING IT RIGHT vs. STROKE UNSAFE SILT KICKING DIVER thing is partially about it.
just heard about a tech diver who got in serious trouble on a deep wreck dive because he only had ONE cutting tool with him (as per DIR manual) . that is not a situation where a 'thinking self-reliant diver' would or should end up in the first place
maybe the problem is just that people WANT to be fundamentalists and WANT to believe that there is ONLY ONE unconditional truth about diving and nothing else.
I personally don't think that diving should be a religious thing but for some people it seems to be very important. and maybe it is totally OK when thinking about it
if they end up dying because they lost the only cutting tool they had? why not, at least they died happily FOR THEIR RELIGION
and I don't dive with that kind of strokes anyway so should not bother me as long as they don't come to burn my "almost DIR but not exactly by the manual" gear 
------
Want to be an ELITE DIVER?
go save some lives or find some new historically important wrecks or explore new cave systems so that we can better understand the history of the planet.
forget about one truth about diving and do something useful with your life instead
And you can always change to base jumping or wingsuit flying if you need lots of adrenaline and admiration and want to be a star. Diving is more about exploring the water realm and being there, relaxed, seeing and experiencing thing otherwise unavailable to human being. Being "ELITE" is about being better than anyone else which fits very poorly to scuba diving and there is lots of better hobbies than this if the main goal is just to brag about your achievements and how badass you are
the common thing in all martial arts being good balance and coordination and understanding the center of gravity and how human body moves around it efficiently. (in scuba diving--->buoyancy control and finning techniques)
approaches vary because the different styles have been developed for different uses ( for example street fighting vs. Japanese feodal wars) ....
one can not really say which scuba technique or equipment configuration is "RIGHT" without knowing the specific situation where it will be used and the person using it.
one of the fundamental issues of especially new DIR divers, I think, is specifically the attitude that 'there is only one safe and efficient equipment configuration for all possible diving scenarios and that is the basic Hogarthian rig with nothing extra added'
I personally think that it is a sign of a bad diver to strictly follow the manual and not think things through by yourself. I think that is specifically how people get hurt in the first place... not thinking with your own brain but just doing something other persons have said before without them knowing the situation you will be in. the whole DOING IT RIGHT vs. STROKE UNSAFE SILT KICKING DIVER thing is partially about it.
just heard about a tech diver who got in serious trouble on a deep wreck dive because he only had ONE cutting tool with him (as per DIR manual) . that is not a situation where a 'thinking self-reliant diver' would or should end up in the first place
maybe the problem is just that people WANT to be fundamentalists and WANT to believe that there is ONLY ONE unconditional truth about diving and nothing else.
I personally don't think that diving should be a religious thing but for some people it seems to be very important. and maybe it is totally OK when thinking about it
if they end up dying because they lost the only cutting tool they had? why not, at least they died happily FOR THEIR RELIGION
and I don't dive with that kind of strokes anyway so should not bother me as long as they don't come to burn my "almost DIR but not exactly by the manual" gear ------
Want to be an ELITE DIVER?
go save some lives or find some new historically important wrecks or explore new cave systems so that we can better understand the history of the planet.
forget about one truth about diving and do something useful with your life instead
And you can always change to base jumping or wingsuit flying if you need lots of adrenaline and admiration and want to be a star. Diving is more about exploring the water realm and being there, relaxed, seeing and experiencing thing otherwise unavailable to human being. Being "ELITE" is about being better than anyone else which fits very poorly to scuba diving and there is lots of better hobbies than this if the main goal is just to brag about your achievements and how badass you are
PfcAJ
Contributor
I guess I missed the memo where the “dir manual” says you can only have one cutting device.I think scuba diving like most sports resembles martial arts quite closely. there is lots of different styles and techniques and opinions and lots of persons who claim that there is only one "right way" to do things. also some open minded persons who understand the pros and cons of every technique and training and equipment setup and may borrow things from multiple styles to suit specific needs and will change the technique/setup immediately if needed.
the common thing in all martial arts being good balance and coordination and understanding the center of gravity and how human body moves around it efficiently. (in scuba diving--->buoyancy control and finning techniques)
approaches vary because the different styles have been developed for different uses ( for example street fighting vs. Japanese feodal wars) ....
one can not really say which scuba technique or equipment configuration is "RIGHT" without knowing the specific situation where it will be used and the person using it.
one of the fundamental issues of especially new DIR divers, I think, is specifically the attitude that 'there is only one safe and efficient equipment configuration for all possible diving scenarios and that is the basic Hogarthian rig with nothing extra added'
I personally think that it is a sign of a bad diver to strictly follow the manual and not think things through by yourself. I think that is specifically how people get hurt in the first place... not thinking with your own brain but just doing something other persons have said before without them knowing the situation you will be in. the whole DOING IT RIGHT vs. STROKE UNSAFE SILT KICKING DIVER thing is partially about it.
just heard about a tech diver who got in serious trouble on a deep wreck dive because he only had ONE cutting tool with him (as per DIR manual) . that is not a situation where a 'thinking self-reliant diver' would or should end up in the first place
maybe the problem is just that people WANT to be fundamentalists and WANT to believe that there is ONLY ONE unconditional truth about diving and nothing else.
I personally don't think that diving should be a religious thing but for some people it seems to be very important. and maybe it is totally OK when thinking about it
if they end up dying because they lost the only cutting tool they had? why not, at least they died happily FOR THEIR RELIGION
------
Want to be an ELITE DIVER?
go save some lives or find some new historically important wrecks or explore new cave systems so that we can better understand the history of the planet.
forget about one truth about diving and do something useful with your life instead
And you can always change to base jumping or wingsuit flying if you need lots of adrenaline and admiration and want to be a star. Diving is more about exploring the water realm and being there, relaxed, seeing and experiencing thing otherwise unavailable to human being. Being "ELITE" is about being better than anyone else which fits very poorly to scuba diving and there is lots of better hobbies than this if the main goal is just to brag about your achievements and how badass you are
Dir guys have been putting shears in their pockets and extra knives on their Goodman handles for decades.
Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers
It doesn't explicitly say do not have more than one. But it does say "this is how you do it" and it only talks about one cutting device. For other things, like lights, it specifically says more than one.
PfcAJ
Contributor
Jack Hammer
Contributor
if it says only one cutting device "is needed" then certain people of course take it the way that they will NEVER need anything extra. kinda common logic for human beings.
maybe they should correct it a little to make it more clear that SOMETIMES it MAY still be nice to have a backup with you
-- yes I have seen those mini tekna etc knives in diveshop catalog. never actually seen anyone using them here for open water technical diving, I thought they were mainly a cave diver thing
maybe they should correct it a little to make it more clear that SOMETIMES it MAY still be nice to have a backup with you
-- yes I have seen those mini tekna etc knives in diveshop catalog. never actually seen anyone using them here for open water technical diving, I thought they were mainly a cave diver thing
Similar threads
