THE "PERFECT ( being horizontal ) TRIM" HOAX

[Manatee Diver]

Long deco? Any deco?

Gimmie dat rope pls.

Or dat rock.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I'm a IANTD tech instructor and a GUE T2/C2 diver with a rebreather....Like my trim?? Don't take diving or dive agencies too seriously. Yes I believe 100% that good trim and buoyancy are the basics of being a good diver. PS: can't believe there are 20+ pages with comments on something so silly (and now I've contributed as well, silly me).
PPS: can't believe that I said "anal retentive" so much in 1 post. I must be anal!

I started a thread... Oh well I didn't think it would take off and have the number of views or replies it has. You've hit the nail on the head. All I want to be is a good diver. I've got my buoyancy and trim & balance sorted. I go slow and I know where my limbs are in relation to corals fans the bottom etc. I have a friend who is a PADI instructor Cert and TDI advanced Nitrox deco diver. He doesn't teach. The first time we paired up for three dives in one day he would take photos of me to see if I bumped into anything or held onto anything to get a photo or video. I was totally unaware of that. He was doing that to decide if he wanted to dive with me in future as he was also into taking photos and wanted a dive buddy that he could trust and had the same interests. He also noted I had a unique way of hovering and using my dive torch to search fans and walls and holes for things. Often with my legs crossed lol. We've become good friends who dive in different countries together.

I just love it when people tell me if only I would improve my trim how much more air I would conserve.

This thread has been a good conversational piece.

 

[Blackcrusader]

What I learned from Fundies however is control over my buoyancy. That's invaluable, not the "right trim position".

I got that from my BSAC instructor in my BSAC Sports diving novice class. It was mandatory to have buoyancy control.
I've met some new OW PADI certified divers who had excellent buoyancy control but very few. Most kick because they get that sinking feeling and never used the BCD for it's purpose. The are not taught buoyancy control properly in their OW classes.

I blame agencies for this. They let poor standards be taught then offer a specialty certificate for correcting a poorly trained diver. What a joke. So I had PADI OW then joined a BSAC Club. First thing was doing that buoyancy training and yes horizontal trim for when it was required.

 

[Ayisha]

Thank you for that. As an avid ditchable-weight-proponent, I sometimes get a mite annoyed at those who preach "no ditchable weight, no matter the circumstances" (only a slight amount of hyperbole here). And since I have the impression that self-professed DIRers seem to be over-represented in that crowd, I think it's nice to see a self-professed DIRer claiming the opposite.

The right tool for the right job.

You're welcome, but I just summarize what comes right out of the GUE materials, and I've written it often.

GUE had a larger emphasis on ditchable weight in the past, so it's interesting that some DIR proponents say no ditchable weight. In my Fundies course, we looked at what ditchable weight can be, which is any ballast including weights, a can light, heavy camera, DPV, etc. We were not told to have ditchable weight, and in fact, 2 out of the 3 of us no longer had ditchable weight right after beginning the course. My weight pockets were unscrewed from my Infinity bp and replaced with weight pockets on my cam band (with my permission).

I continue to dive without ditchable weight, but of course dive a balanced rig. It's about having the correct weight from the beginning to the end of a dive, wherever that ballast may be. It's important to realize that ditchable weight is not necessarily "extra" weight, and if you're correctly weighted for a balanced rig, ditchable weight is not necessary, but it's ok. Notice the statement below regarding swimming up with full tanks and "all weight in place."

This is from the GUE course book "Fundamentals of Better Diving" (on p.107), which hasn't been updated in 20 years:

"The ideal configuration for a diver is one that, while being as light as possible, allows him/her to remain neutral at 10 feet; (3m) with a nearly empty set of tanks (to allow for decompression/safety stops). Quite often the only way to ensure this is to incorporate removable weights. Most divers carry this weight in the form of a belt that, in the event of an emergency, can be dropped; others carry this weight in the form of a canister light, which also can be dropped in the event of an emergency.

The bottom line here, however, is that divers should be certain that, without any air in their buoyancy compensators, they are capable of swimming against the weight of their configuration with full tanks and all weight in place. This would allow them to verify that they are able to manage their SCUBA configuration in the event of a buoyancy failure".

 

[Blackcrusader]

Feet too high is often associated with excess positive buoyancy meaning the diver has to expend extra effort continually swimming downhill, they then breathe too hard, inhale to much and start an uncontrolled ascent whist desperately pulling their ineffective shoulder dump.

Well that's why there is a dump valve near your arse. Why would I try to dump air from a shoulder when my shoulder is lower than my arse?

 

[beester]

Thank you for that. As an avid ditchable-weight-proponent, I sometimes get a mite annoyed at those who preach "no ditchable weight, no matter the circumstances" (only a slight amount of hyperbole here). And since I have the impression that self-professed DIRers seem to be over-represented in that crowd, I think it's nice to see a self-professed DIRer claiming the opposite.

The right tool for the right job.

Your impression is wrong. People who think in absolutes, black/white, no matter the subject, are IMO a clear indication that they don't yet fully grasp the subject matter, are no experts. There are a couple of absolutes that I adhere to while diving (MOD, gas reserves for specific dives, etc) but most is discussable.

Again if you hear a selfprofessed "DIR" diver state anything in absolute terms, or worse, try to convince you of your erronous ways... well probably he's just a beginner who drank too much coolaid. But the same goes for the majority of (NON DIR) divers.

On ditchable weight. There is nothing against it, as long as you have your buoyancy worked out (ie are not overweighted). I carry 2 kg (4.4lbs) on a weightbelt. Actually not so much to ditch it (I can easily manage 2 kg with my drysuit if my wing would fail, or even swim it up), but more because it lowers my center of gravity a bit, which is more comfortable for me.

However you have to ask yourself, why ditchable weight. Unless you are overweighted (and I've done workshops with very experienced divers where I could take of 5-8 kg of weight during the workshop) or using a wetsuit and heavy (non alu) tanks, why ditchable? Specially when you see loads of divers with ditchable weights which are not very ditchable in the first place.

I can't imagine a scenario where 2 kg less weight would be a lifesafer, even diving recreationally. I can swim up a lot more than 2 kg, plus I would need a catastrophic failure of my wing (elbow piece coming loose), and a failure of my drysuit inflation system, before I would need it. I've had a big hole in my wing during a wreckdive (don't ask my how... I was a real fool ;-)) but when I located the hole by altering my position in the water I could keep the hole low and still use the wing.

Again this is my setup and my diving. Of course there are loads of people having ditchable weights on their BCDs, and it can be helpful, but I would always look first and how the weight is distributed and how much weight is used, how balanced the rig is, before talking about ditchable weights.

Cheers

 

[lermontov]

I've had a big hole in my wing during a wreckdive (don't ask my how... I was a real fool ;-)) but when I located the hole by altering my position in the water I could keep the hole low and still use the wing.

Cheers

now i want to know !

i use ditchable weights so i can take them out before i climb up a ladder -
also to lower C of gravity

 

[ginti]

also to lower C of gravity

ditchable weights are not the only way to lower the centre of gravity, although this is one of their advantages.

Out of curiosity, do you do tech? If yes, do you use the same weight configuration for tech and rec? (obviously the amount of weights will change depending on tanks, suit, etc. - with configuration I mean how you store your weights; e.g. do you always use a belt? or pockets? or a combination of them?)

EDIT: just to be clear and to avoid useless flame, although I usually do not use ditchable weights, I am not against them

 

[Julius SCHMIDT]

The plate sits up high all weight in or on the plate neutral fins and that's all you need

Driving DSS off is a tragedy

 

[Blackcrusader]

I have a Scuba Pro Black XXL size BCD with inserts. I have 2kg in each side insert at bottom of BCD and 2kg in the back shoulder pockets. My correct weight is probably closer to 6kg but I prefer extra weights I use as sometimes I find a vacation diver at end of dive under weighted struggling to do the safety stop without having to swim down I can quickly give them a 2kg pouch.

My camera and lights are another couple of kilos. That gets handed up to boat crew first then weights in the insert pouches then fins. If the water is really choppy I may remove my BCD and tank and let the crew bring that aboard. Before someone tells me to switch to a back plate I tried the Xdeep and yes it's nice I just prefer my BCD.