NSS-CDS Effectiveness

[karstdvr]

1-access, they are part of a larger group that is doing that and there is currently no head of land owner relations so I'm not entirely sure that that would be missed

You really don't have to have a specific head,but they have people who take responsibility for maintaining relations. Eagles Nest was on chopping block, and the CDS has a long standing credibility with state organizations, and kept it off the closed list. Remember when Little River was closed for stabilization work, they negotiated continued access with the county. Telford was closed, even for river access,but negotiations by the CDS allowed this. Madison, when it was sold to the state, and contractedout by a vendor, got access. Everytime the state discusses a management plan for a park, the CDS is invited as part of this process. CDS was imperative from preventing damage from commercial construction. Many years ago the owners of Ginnie were putting some rules in place that would hurt cave diving, and they were there to help negotiate access. Gaining access to Emerald wouldn't have happened without the CDS. If the CDS didn't purchase Cow, it would be an RV park. That is just a few

2- yeah, except that's not actually true and I don't really want to get into that, but they are trying to become relevant again which is nice to see

One of the few organizations that have their instructor candidates intern with other instructors, and pass an institute with several instructors. Not one course director singly who gives a blessing

3-it would be nice if we actually heard from the CDS which we never really do

Safe to say with your current criticism you don't look at the CDS web site etc. You can't expect them to come to each forum to spoon feed you, because they don't spend time on all the different forums. When was the last time you dialed into one of their board meeting?

4-The position of Educational Outreach Committee Coordinator is also vacant, though the conferences are admittedly nice to have.

The process is getting done through many other mechanisms

Either way, we saw the NACD fade away with no negative impact to the community and I am sad to think that if the same happened to the CDS that there would be no change in the community either which means that they have faded into irrelevance

What has happened to the NACD is unfortunate,but they had a long history of positive impacts. But an NACD comparison is really a whataboutism

I get it you don't like the CDS and don't see a value. Having the CDS as a prominent non-profit organization, it is something that entities can relate to, especially if you factor in their relationship with the NSS, which has massive prominence. What would cave diving look like without the CDS. More likely we would have fewer sites, and probably greater access limits, because do you see the for- profit agencies taking an active role. The only way the for-profit agencies were able to develop cave programs is because of the foundation the CDS and NACD laid out,but thus far they take,but don't return anything to the community- except t-shirts at the workshop. Have you seen the for profit agencies install new line and warning signs? I have yet to see a TDI or IANTD grim reaper sign in a cave. When Eagles Nest was under threat, and all the agencies use it for training, who responded? Crickets from the for profit agencies. Vote with you dollars by not being a member, and continue a critical stance,but anybody who enjoys cave diving has the CDS to thank for it.

 

[NothingClever]

Reading with great interest.

 

[kensuf]

If you have ideas, if you want more from these organizations, nothing is preventing you from running for the BOD and actually doing something other than whine. Spend your time, money and effort to actually affect some change.

There's a vicious circle where due to a lack of action, people do not see a value to the org so they do not want to volunteer or get involved. And with a lack of enthusiastic volunteers, there's a lack of action. Which cause people to not see a value to the org so they do not want to volunteer or get involved.

Volunteer organizations need, umm, volunteers. Being on the board isn't easy, lord knows I've got a huge bald spot on either side of my head from yanking my hair. I did my time, Tom, I think you have some good ideas and the CDS could benefit from someone like you that is willing and enthusiastic on the board. I challenge you to get involved and try and fix things.

 

[karstdvr]

Tom, I think you have some good ideas and the CDS could benefit from someone like you that is willing and enthusiastic on the board. I challenge you to get involved and try and fix things.

Good point Ken. It is easy to sit behind a QWERTY and be critical. The organization is shaped by the members hence one reason to call for board elections. Of all the "cave diving organizations" the CDS is the only one that allows and encourages input at different levels, without having to be an instructor. If people are passionate about making sure their sport has a future, then being passive doesn't help any at all.

 

[The Chairman]

I get it you don't like the CDS and don't see a value.

I liked most of what you wrote, but took exception with this. Tom has not stated that he didn't like the CDS. Stating as such is simply a put down and putting words in his mouth. His problem is that he, as well as a few others, aren't currently seeing any value in the CDS. He's a skeptic: not an enemy. Let's treat him that way, with both patience and respect.

 

[The Chairman]

Safe to say with your current criticism you don't look at the CDS web site etc. You can't expect them to come to each forum to spoon feed you, because they don't spend time on all the different forums. When was the last time you dialed into one of their board meeting?

So, you feel they need to take the "out" out of "outreach"? There are really only two major forums out there that really serve cave diving. How hard is it for them (or you) to post here and there?

Personally, I don't understand the corporate antagonism towards using forums. If you truly want to educate us: here we are: A forum by divers for divers. We're the stocked pond of divers. If you want to catch fish, it's probably better to try the stocked pond rather than a much less visited puddle. In fact, one easy way to grow traffic to your or any site is to post here on SB with the site in your signature. Posting links to their website is always and allowed and even encouraged.

 

[tbone1004]

@karstdvr

Vote with you dollars by not being a member, and continue a critical stance, but anybody who enjoys cave diving has the CDS to thank for it.

Let me fix that for you Kelly, "HAD" the CDS to thank for it. I hope the current board starts to turn the ship around, but I don't see that happening.

The news section on the website has literally nothing on it since Edd got the guy out of the cave in Tennessee, the rest of it is BoD meeting announcements and minutes. There should be a monthly or hell even quarterly email distribution like every other well run organization has that says what we did, what we're going to do, and what we want to do and need help with.

Tell me something the CDS has done in the last 2 years since Eagles Nest was 3 years ago. You are spewing the same nonsense that everyone else has when I've asked them, all historical things that the organization did and absolutely NOTHING about what we've done recently or what we plan on doing.

I'm not against the CDS, I was a member for a long time. When they stopped doing anything productive I decided to vote with my dollars and started giving to organizations that are actively doing things.

Also, what does it say about an organization when they can't fill the seats? It doesn't look good, and complete BS that you don't need those seats filled, those are arguably the two most important seats that you need to keep filled to maintain a healthy organization.

Also also also, the instructor comment means nothing since you have some of the worst instructors in cave country signing off on these supposedly new top quality instructors. CDS instruction has not guaranteed quality instruction in well over a decade, so obviously that isn't working.

 

[tbone1004]

There's a vicious circle where due to a lack of action, people do not see a value to the org so they do not want to volunteer or get involved. And with a lack of enthusiastic volunteers, there's a lack of action. Which cause people to not see a value to the org so they do not want to volunteer or get involved.

Volunteer organizations need, umm, volunteers. Being on the board isn't easy, lord knows I've got a huge bald spot on either side of my head from yanking my hair. I did my time, Tom, I think you have some good ideas and the CDS could benefit from someone like you that is willing and enthusiastic on the board. I challenge you to get involved and try and fix things.

If a board member has some compelling reason for me to actually rejoin the CDS so I'd be eligible then I would consider it. They have to give me a reason to rejoin first...

 

[Dominick Gheesling]

What I learned as Co-Host of the 2019 NSS-CDS International Cave Diving Conference...

So, I guess that would make 2019 my 1st year (not even a year) as a member of the NSS-CDS. What an eye-opener. When I told people that I would be co-hosting most responded with laughter and/or apologies for the nonsense that I was to endure.

For the record the 2020 Conference was the LARGEST (attendance) in history and the most PROFITABLE (for the CDS) in history. There were countless individuals and companies that made this possible through donations of time, money, and merchandise BUT all of that would have been for nothing without the efforts of a specific few individuals: Elisha Bragdon (Co-Host, Amazing Individual, Badass Extraordinaire), Adam Hughes (CDS Make it happen man), Ken Sallot (SImply the greatest advocate for the membership and organization), Rene Power (Volunteer Coordinator Extraordinaire and Coordinator of the Tales From the Back of The Cave Event) and Lamar Hires ( I cannot say enough to express the depths of this man's generosity and genuine concern for the CDS). And even though he probably wished I would just keep my big mouth shut, I am going to call out my friend, dive mentor, and fellow CDS member Mike Stine who quietly helped me throughout almost every aspect of the process of planning the event.

There were many others who contributed and I hope they all received the appreciation and gratitude of the CDS Board and Membership but these key individuals kept everything going when it all could have gone up in flames, which was just about any moment during the process. This is where I mention that I had to fight the CDS Board to purchase Thank You cards for all of the Sponsors of the Conference.

Elisha and I received an EXTREMELY limited turnover of information on how to prepare the conference. Like a few screen-shots of Dive Business cards for contact information. We attempted to do everything we could to be completely inclusive of the entire Cave Diving Community, which by the way means learning about and how to navigate all of the many egos, schisms and long standing feuds in the Cave Diving Community (Which by the way almost all seem to stem back to some business deal gone bad).

We did everything we could to publish all conference information EARLY to encourage attendance and across as many platforms as possible to reach as many members as possible. Lacking any other way to do so, I created an mass-email account so that I could send out all of that information to the membership.

Throughout the entire process, we kept accurate records of donors, sponsors, all contact information, actual donations, venue information, vendor information, volunteer information, etc. and all of that has been forwarded to the CDS. We also the posting of Sponsor Ads in various media platforms to ensure that all sponsors were receiving the proper return for their sponsorship.

I could go on even longer for the many ways the CDS was not prepared to host this conference and individual members had to step in to make it work but that's not my greatest concern.

My greatest concern is this, at almost every stage of the planning process, we (Elisha, myself, and sometimes our advocates) had to fight with the BOD for approval to spend any money for the conference. We were told we could do whatever we wanted ( which I think was just laziness on the part of the BOD to avoid involvement) but were given very little instruction and NO BUDGET! Every financial decision we made was a fight. Did I mention that we Hosted the most PROFITABLE CONFERENCE IN THE HISTORY OF THE CDS!?! The most profitable conference for a Volunteer organization that was already sitting on over $100,000 in their coffers.

Most members did not choose to attend the annual meeting which takes place immediately following the conference. There might have been a dozen or so of the membership there. I believe the meeting agenda was planned to be a simple induction of the new BOD. I was there. I asked them about the swelling coffers and what the CDS plans to do with the money. I was there and I asked them about their plans for outreach. I was there and I asked them about their plans for site access. I was there and I let the entire board know that they should all be ashamed of themselves for how damn near impossible they made the process of conducting the 2020 NSS-CDS International Cave Diving Conference.

I imagine that probably has something to do with the fact that neither Elisha or myself were recognized in any way in the subsequent issue of the UWS for our part in the conference.

There are some incredible individuals within the membership of the NSS-CDS ( I am no longer a member) who give tirelessly and then there are some real asshats with personal agendas that have little or nothing to do with the benefit of the organization, several of these are on the BOD currently.

I REALLY APPRECIATE GOLD LINE!!! Although with all of the bitching that goes on I'd be happy just to run my own.

I REALLY APPRECIATE the history and achievements of the NSS-CDS in Training, Land owner relations, and Site access.

I REALLY APPRECIATE the Winter Workshops and the International Conference.

Unfortunately, most of the successes in these areas are in the past.

Granted, during the Covid19 Pandemic making forward progress in some areas (CDS goals) is stymied or impossible but maybe there has been ample time to sort out a few things:

1. Membership Database

2. Membership new and renewal process

3. Notification to members of upcoming membership expiration

4. Sorting the UWS and the future of the UWS

5. COMMUNICATION with the membership from the BOD

6. The MONEY. Remember that $100,000 I mentioned? Well, What does the CDS plan to do with that money? Is the CDS now a bank or does it have some other responsibilities?

Personally, I see the CDS as an organization with TREMENDOUS POTENTIAL, that unfortunately is being run into the ground. It would take a major restructuring of the BOD to renew my membership as well as concrete plans for how to further the charges of the CDS.

 

[tursiops]

What I learned as Co-Host of the 2020 NSS-CDS International Cave Diving Conference...

So, I guess that would make 2019 my 1st year (not even a year) as a member of the NSS-CDS. What an eye-opener. When I told people that I would be co-hosting most responded with laughter and/or apologies for the nonsense that I was to endure.

For the record the 2020 Conference was the LARGEST (attendance) in history and the most PROFITABLE (for the CDS) in history. There were countless individuals and companies that made this possible through donations of time, money, and merchandise BUT all of that would have been for nothing without the efforts of a specific few individuals: Elisha Bragdon (Co-Host, Amazing Individual, Badass Extraordinaire), Adam Hughes (CDS Make it happen man), Ken Sallot (SImply the greatest advocate for the membership and organization), Rene Power (Volunteer Coordinator Extraordinaire and Coordinator of the Tales From the Back of The Cave Event) and Lamar Hires ( I cannot say enough to express the depths of this man's generosity and genuine concern for the CDS). And even though he probably wished I would just keep my big mouth shut, I am going to call out my friend, dive mentor, and fellow CDS member Mike Stine who quietly helped me throughout almost every aspect of the process of planning the event.

There were many others who contributed and I hope they all received the appreciation and gratitude of the CDS Board and Membership but these key individuals kept everything going when it all could have gone up in flames, which was just about any moment during the process. This is where I mention that I had to fight the CDS Board to purchase Thank You cards for all of the Sponsors of the Conference.

Elisha and I received an EXTREMELY limited turnover of information on how to prepare the conference. Like a few screen-shots of Dive Business cards for contact information. We attempted to do everything we could to be completely inclusive of the entire Cave Diving Community, which by the way means learning about and how to navigate all of the many egos, schisms and long standing feuds in the Cave Diving Community (Which by the way almost all seem to stem back to some business deal gone bad).

We did everything we could to publish all conference information EARLY to encourage attendance and across as many platforms as possible to reach as many members as possible. Lacking any other way to do so, I created an mass-email account so that I could send out all of that information to the membership.

Throughout the entire process, we kept accurate records of donors, sponsors, all contact information, actual donations, venue information, vendor information, volunteer information, etc. and all of that has been forwarded to the CDS. We also the posting of Sponsor Ads in various media platforms to ensure that all sponsors were receiving the proper return for their sponsorship.

I could go on even longer for the many ways the CDS was not prepared to host this conference and individual members had to step in to make it work but that's not my greatest concern.

My greatest concern is this, at almost every stage of the planning process, we (Elisha, myself, and sometimes our advocates) had to fight with the BOD for approval to spend any money for the conference. We were told we could do whatever we wanted ( which I think was just laziness on the part of the BOD to avoid involvement) but were given very little instruction and NO BUDGET! Every financial decision we made was a fight. Did I mention that we Hosted the most PROFITABLE CONFERENCE IN THE HISTORY OF THE CDS!?! The most profitable conference for a Volunteer organization that was already sitting on over $100,000 in their coffers.

Most members did not choose to attend the annual meeting which takes place immediately following the conference. There might have been a dozen or so of the membership there. I believe the meeting agenda was planned to be a simple induction of the new BOD. I was there. I asked them about the swelling coffers and what the CDS plans to do with the money. I was there and I asked them about their plans for outreach. I was there and I asked them about their plans for site access. I was there and I let the entire board know that they should all be ashamed of themselves for how damn near impossible they made the process of conducting the 2020 NSS-CDS International Cave Diving Conference.

I imagine that probably has something to do with the fact that neither Elisha or myself were recognized in any way in the subsequent issue of the UWS for our part in the conference.

There are some incredible individuals within the membership of the NSS-CDS ( I am no longer a member) who give tirelessly and then there are some real asshats with personal agendas that have little or nothing to do with the benefit of the organization, several of these are on the BOD currently.

I REALLY APPRECIATE GOLD LINE!!! Although with all of the bitching that goes on I'd be happy just to run my own.

I REALLY APPRECIATE the history and achievements of the NSS-CDS in Training, Land owner relations, and Site access.

I REALLY APPRECIATE the Winter Workshops and the International Conference.

Unfortunately, most of the successes in these areas are in the past.

Granted, during the Covid19 Pandemic making forward progress in some areas (CDS goals) is stymied or impossible but maybe there has been ample time to sort out a few things:

1. Membership Database

2. Membership new and renewal process

3. Notification to members of upcoming membership expiration

4. Sorting the UWS and the future of the UWS

5. COMMUNICATION with the membership from the BOD

6. The MONEY. Remember that $100,000 I mentioned? Well, What does the CDS plan to do with that money? Is the CDS now a bank or does it have some other responsibilities?

Personally, I see the CDS as an organization with TREMENDOUS POTENTIAL, that unfortunately is being run into the ground. It would take a major restructuring of the BOD to renew my membership as well as concrete plans for how to further the charges of the CDS.

You should chair the all-new BOD.