Is it possible to travel responsibly (during a pandemic)?

[KenGordon]

The survival rate for people under 70 who contract Covid is 99.98%.

it is not. The death rate increase approximately linearly with age. In the U.K. we have had about 100k deaths from a population of 70million of which maybe 10million have been infected. In recent discussion of the impact of the B117 variant is was noted that a 60 year old’s probability of death might be increased from 1% to 1.4% (actually this was a government statement disputed by the author of the study quoted but the basic numbers are accepted). You can see that puts a lower bound of 0.5% on the below 60 set.

SB posters are closer to 60 or 70 than 18.

in U.K. ICUs the SURVIAL rate for over 70s is 12.5%

 

[Schwob]

in U.K. ICUs the SURVIAL rate for over 70s is 12.5%

Holy sh..!

 

[chillyinCanada]

Please don't take this the wrong way. I am not a Super Trumper, No Masker, or Govt Control conspiracy theorist, but there are entire economies that depend on exactly the type of travel that we're talking about. There are entire communities that depend on nothing but dive travel.

Does Pensacola Fl., or Venice La. depend on us traveling to feed their families? Probably not, but, I do have a friend in Utila, Honduras that said his island is struggling from the lack of tourist travel.

We need to " Spread the wealth" around to keep people fed. The biggest issue is that we have is to be as safe as reasonably practicable. Otherwise we will all just rot in our homes and become shallow characters is some dystopian novel.

Travel but follow all the G..D... Precautions!!!

Utila will suffer a great deal more should the virus visit there.

 

[chillyinCanada]

To the people that say travel is reckless and selfish, irresponsible ect.... do you go out to dinner, do you go to the grocery store, the bank, your family members home? Serious question

I don't go out to dinner. A very high portion of those who become infected report that they have been out to dinner in the previous two weeks.

Last September, despite following all protocols in every instance, I also went to brunch with a friend. We followed the protocols at the restaurant and then went to get our flu shots.
I caught what turned out to be a garden variety cold, my friend did not.

We'd done exactly the same thing, I got sick and she did not. My lesson was learned.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Responsibility is a matter of degree. Every time we take a car on the road, there's a chance we'll get in a wreck and someone else will get killed. But drive for recreational pursuits when not strictly necessary. I imagine the risks with the pandemic are substantially higher, but my point is it's a matter of degree. Yes, there's a risk of moving the virus around.

And there probably always will be. This virus is expected to be a permanent fixture of human life on Earth going forward, from what I've read. Yes, vaccination rates will climb greatly. Yes, the speed of spread will diminish, and the death rate and hospitalization/I.C.U. usage rate all fall.

But not to zero. The flu kills many each year, yet we ignore it when travel planning (except maybe an annual flu vaccination). The flu virus mutates, a new strain can be deadly, etc...

So however people answer this question now, it will linger...at what point between the danger level of COVID-19 now, and the flu we customarily ignore, does it become 'safe' enough for dive travel? When the fatality rate is 5 times the flu? 3 Times?

In my province, more people have died from covid-19 *this* year than have died from flu in the last 20 years.

 

[Dan]

There have been so many threads and deleted posts about covid and travel that I thought I would start a thread devoted to safe(er) travel. And yes, I have a Florida trip and 2 Liveaboards planned so far for this year.

Yes. I have 1 resort & 9 liveaboard trips this year (4 of them are from cancelled trips from last year and 3 were made prior to the pandemic). I have been careful to follow the CDC protocols (wearing masks when I’m inside a building, like grocery store, always meet face-to-face with a few friends & family that I know them to be free of COVID-19, hand washing as often as possible, wearing mask when meeting with stranger, etc.) since March last year.

After 9 months of living with this new lifestyle without contracting the virus, I decided to resume my dive traveling activities. My thought is if I am COVID-19 free, know how to prevent the spreading of the virus to others and vice versa, I would be ready to venture outside.

I PCR tested negative before I travel (costing me $130/swab) and others would be in the same boat with me. So we all would be in a bubble of COVID-19 free environment. I just came back from Cocos in last December and Socorro last week. All is well. I just followed the COVID-19 protocols. No biggy. Treated everyone in the boat as if they had the virus in the first few days, i.e., wear mask, social distancing, wash hands often, etc.

I have 9 more trips lined up for this year due to rescheduling of the cancelled trips from last year and those that I already booked prior to the pandemic mess. Now I just need to manage these trips carefully, like walking across land mines. As I said above, if I have been tested to be COVID-19 free, know how to prevent the spreading, and after January 26 we will be tested again on the way home, why should I be penalized and confined myself at home?

Here’s my 2021 dive trips:
1. Socorro in Jan - just finished
2. Belize in Feb - booked in Jan 2020
3. Maldives in Mar - booked in Jan 2021
4. Tiger Beach in Apr - 11/19 rescheduled
5. Socorro in May - booked in Sep 2019
6. Malpelo in July - booked in Jan 2020
7. Sangalaki in Aug - booked in Aug 2019
8. Cocos in Sep - 9/20 rescheduled
9. Guadalupe in Oct - 7/20 rescheduled
10. Galápagos in Nov - 5/20 rescheduled

After the Cocos trip in December 2020 and Socorro trip last week, I self quarantine myself for 2 weeks (i.e., not having dinner with family or friends). I do cycling everyday for 30-60 miles/day with my cycling buddies after the trips. However they are outside activities, I told them that I just came back from travel and I keep social distancing from them. So far, so good. Fingers crossed.

 

[Altamira]

That’s fair enough and I am not in any way advocating for irresponsible or reckless travel. Cautious and intelligent travel and freedom of choice is the answer.

Unfortunately "...freedom of choice" seems to be a major cause of the horrific spread of Covid 19. Many peoples' concept and application of their freedom of choice puts other, perhaps more vulnerable fellow citizens at risk of getting very sick or dying. You do not have to look hard to find an endless list of flagrant examples of ignorant, narcissistic, and risky behavior that puts others in harm's way. Some people do not have the common sense or willingness to put their desires ahead of keeping others safe, and I find that sad. My wife and I are healthy/active in our mid-70s, will soon get our second dose of Moderna vaccine, and every month we don't travel to help reduce the risk to others is a sizable percentage of the time remaining that we will likely have to do the things we want to do. Although we will be vaccinated, current data does not show we could not carry/transmit Covid-19 to others, so we still will not likely travel for the foreseeable future. We feel our sacrifices are small compared to the suffering of millions of families devastated by this disease.

And for those that think a negative PCR test on day 1 of scheduled LOB trip does not mean you could not test positive on day 2, 3, 4, etc., or put you in a Covid free bubble for the remainder of your trip, are not understanding the literature on this disease.

 

[jale]

Yes. I have 1 resort & 9 liveaboard trips this year (4 of them are from cancelled trips from last year and 3 were made prior to the pandemic). I have been careful to follow the CDC protocols (wearing masks when I’m inside a building, like grocery store, always meet face-to-face with a few friends & family that I know them to be free of COVID-19, hand washing as often as possible, wearing mask when meeting with stranger, etc.) since March last year.

After 9 months of living with this new lifestyle without contracting the virus, I decided to resume my dive traveling activities. My thought is if I am COVID-19 free, know how to prevent the spreading of the virus to others and vice versa, I would be ready to venture outside.

I PCR tested negative before I travel (costing me $130/swab) and others would be in the same boat with me. So we all would be in a bubble of COVID-19 free environment. I just came back from Cocos in last December and Socorro last week. All is well. I just followed the COVID-19 protocols. No biggy. Treated everyone in the boat as if they had the virus in the first few days, i.e., wear mask, social distancing, wash hands often, etc.

I have 9 more trips lined up for this year due to rescheduling of the cancelled trips from last year and those that I already booked prior to the pandemic mess. Now I just need to manage these trips carefully, like walking across land mines. As I said above, if I have been tested to be COVID-19 free, know how to prevent the spreading, and after January 26 we will be tested again on the way home, why should I be penalized and confined myself at home?

Here’s my 2021 dive trips:
1. Socorro in Jan - just finished
2. Belize in Feb - booked in Jan 2020
3. Maldives in Mar - booked in Jan 2021
4. Tiger Beach in Apr - 11/19 rescheduled
5. Socorro in May - booked in Sep 2019
6. Malpelo in July - booked in Jan 2020
7. Sangalaki in Aug - booked in Aug 2019
8. Cocos in Sep - 9/20 rescheduled
9. Guadalupe in Oct - 7/20 rescheduled
10. Galápagos in Nov - 5/20 rescheduled

After the Cocos trip in December 2020 and Socorro trip last week, I self quarantine myself for 2 weeks (i.e., not having dinner with family or friends). I do cycling everyday for 30-60 miles/day with my cycling buddies after the trips. However they are outside activities, I told them that I just came back from travel and I keep social distancing from them. So far, so good. Fingers crossed.

This post is so sad.
Sad to see that supposedly smart people can only practice navel gazing...

 

[Dan]

And for those that think a negative PCR test on day 1 of scheduled LOB trip does not mean you could not test positive on day 2, 3, 4, etc.,

I continue follow the CDC protocol even after day 5, like any days before in the past 9 months. It’s not the first time I got the negative PCR test results. Why would I get test positive on day 2, 3, or 4 if I am disciplined to keep me from getting the virus & vice versa?

 

[Dan]

This post is so sad.
Sad to see that supposedly smart people can only practice navel gazing...

At least I am helping those struggling businesses afloat and assure that I’m not spreading the virus, that I don’t have to give away to begin with. I also am making sure that none of them would give the virus to me as I have a lot of stake in this matter.