Missing Diver Off Vandenberg?

[peeweediver]

We've gone way off topic, but wanted to add my current anxiety to the pile of comments. Our quarry now has visibility of, at best, 10 feet and many times, 5-7 feet. I have informed the shop I teach for that I won't take more than 3 OW students at a time or 5 with a DM. If I have one student next to me and two right behind I can see everyone and usually lead the tour part swimming on my back or side. My anxiety has been growing the past two Summers and I'm really wondering how much longer I can keep doing this without extinguishing all joy from teaching Open Water.
As to guided dives not part of training, my best experiences have been when the boat/resort is clear about the DM/guide's purpose. "He/She is there to finds stuff for you, that's it". "He/She will lead the group around and then back to the boat if you follow him/her". Only in more advanced places like Cocos has the staff said, "The DM/guide will continually assess current and call the dive if it gets too strong...or someone gets lost". We did lose two almost right at the start of the dive and the DM waited for them to show up at the meet up spot. It didn't happen so he called the dive. They were fine and the Lifeline worked great to find them. Never in my experience has a boat/shop said, "DM is there to deal with your emergencies". However, our DM in Socorro did see my brother-in-law run out of air (gasping for a breathe and eyes wide open) share air with him and get him to the surface from 70 feet. Where his buddy was (not me!) and why he ran out of air is another story. I guess I owe a thanks to Dave V. for saving my brother-in-law...still wondering about that.
What we all try to do as professionals is the very best we know how. When we get into the "I am the greatest because", we sound silly as a whole group. I do see things at our quarry that border on reportable, but nobody does it because they're bad, just because they are part of an operation that emphasizes quantity rather than quality.
In conclusion (who knew I could pontificate this much, sorry), having dove the VDB in heavy current, I can easily see a situation when a diver disappears and no guide, no matter how skillful, could stop it. Let's give him/her the benefit of the doubt and remember to tell all who will listen, don't dive the VDB without proper experience and planning.

Rob

 

[BRT]

Hogwash! While all dive professionals might 'know that', those that have not at least once lost tempory sight of a customer / student would be in the minorty, or only dive incrystal clear water while swimming backwards (if leading) a group. Simply by 'leading' a congo line of divers you have 'lost sight' of the divers - however tempotaly - whenever you are looking ahead. And as any experienced instructor / DM can tell you / should know, a student can bolt to the surface / or make an unannounced / unscheduled right / left turn into a wreck hatchway in a heartbeat. As the poster above so eloquently put it, if someone claims never to have lost sight - however breifly - of a diver in their charge, then they are ".............just a f... liar........" With all due respect that quoted comment above is extreme over-simplification and simply not real-world true.

Hey! I was just quoting a "professional"!

 

[AdivingBel]

Someone once said ... "Diving is not safe, but it can be done more safely." (paraphrased) The Vandy is an advanced dive. There are days (conditions) that are more advanced than others. You don't always know until you get there. A good op will go somewhere else if you can't see the mooring balls when you get there. I've dived it in nearly zero current with incredible viz and I've also been "a flag on the mooring line." There is plenty of info about the dive and nearly all the ops that go there stress that it's/can be an advanced dive. Believe them...they are not just trying to upsell you an AOW or a guide. Any diver that makes half an effort knows this, the rest...well it's one of the reasons we can't always have nice things. As a diver, your safety is on you. If you're not comfortable with advanced dives then don't go. There are plenty of other dives in the Keys. If you want to get the most out of the dive and you don't have time to dive it multiple days (it's BIG), hire one of the dive sherpas. You'll get a lot more out of it, but he/she is not your lifeguard. They're just familiar with the site; have local knowledge; and will make your visit more efficient. If you NEED a DM/instructor, dive someplace else. This is not the dive you're looking for...

None of this necessarily has anything to do with this particular incident, 'cause sometimes bad s**t happens. All IMHO, YMMV.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have informed the shop I teach for that I won't take more than 3 OW students at a time

Do you think you are risk free with 3 students? Have you thought through how you will handle things so that you are always with all three? Remember, if you leave a diver unattended, even on the surface, you are liable if something happens. How do you do CESAs when you don't have an assistant?

 

[peeweediver]

Do you think you are risk free with 3 students? Have you thought through how you will handle things so that you are always with all three? Remember, if you leave a diver unattended, even on the surface, you are liable if something happens. How do you do CESAs when you don't have an assistant?

Never risk free so, no, I don't think I'm risk free with 3. It is that I can see all three despite limited viz and if more, I'd lose sight. Yes, I know never to leave a diver unattended underwater or at the surface. I have worked through each skill so as to never leave anyone unattended. Conversely, I have witnessed a student from another shop on the surface above a platform alone. When I ask where the Instructor is they say they are with the other students on the platform. I should report, but I haven't.
As to CESA, funny you should ask. I end the second dive tour at the dock. While we're all on the surface I send two of the divers up the ladder and wait until I can see them walking to the picnic bench with my instructions to help each other off with the gear and wait for me. Then I go down with the one remaining student and do CESA using the line at the dock. Repeat same procedure for dives three and four. Yes, dive four is a diver led tour, but I just do the last CESA at the end after the other two are out of the water. Works for me as to safety.

 

[hilljo88]

Yes, there's no swimming against a 3-4 knot current.

The briefing on diving the VDB in a current estimated at 4 knots:
-jump in and grab on to the granny line.
-submerge and grab on to the line that ran from the granny line to about 15 feet down on the forward mooring line. Don't turn your head sideways or you'll have to fight to keep your reg in and your mask on your face.
-once you've reached the mooring line, descend along that line to the mooring point.
-swim into the lee of the superstructure to cut the current and move forward as best you can
To surface, let the current push you back to the mooring line.
-move up the line (flapping like a flag in the current) and do your safety stop.
-after you finished your stop grab on to the attached line that ran back to the granny line
-surface on the granny line and pull yourself back to the ladder.

With 4 or 5 boats tied in to the various mooring points, its not uncommon for divers to get confused about what line they are on and surface at the wrong boat.

 

[Wookie]

Yes, there's no swimming against a 3-4 knot current.

The briefing on diving the VDB in a current estimated at 4 knots:
-jump in and grab on to the granny line.
-submerge and grab on to the line that ran from the granny line to about 15 feet down on the forward mooring line. Don't turn your head sideways or you'll have to fight to keep your reg in and your mask on your face.
-once you've reached the mooring line, descend along that line to the mooring point.
-swim into the lee of the superstructure to cut the current and move forward as best you can
To surface, let the current push you back to the mooring line.
-move up the line (flapping like a flag in the current) and do your safety stop.
-after you finished your stop grab on to the attached line that ran back to the granny line
-surface on the granny line and pull yourself back to the ladder.

With 4 or 5 boats tied in to the various mooring points, its not uncommon for divers to get confused about what line they are on and surface at the wrong boat.

When we would tie to the Vandy, we would always have to be on the down current mooring. We were a gathering point for wayward divers getting swept away. We would offer them a place to take a leak, some breakfast if they wanted (they never did, funny) and a place to hang out while their boat recovered the other divers and came by to pick them up.

I miss those days.

 

[scubadada]

Yes, there's no swimming against a 3-4 knot current.

The briefing on diving the VDB in a current estimated at 4 knots:
-jump in and grab on to the granny line.
-submerge and grab on to the line that ran from the granny line to about 15 feet down on the forward mooring line. Don't turn your head sideways or you'll have to fight to keep your reg in and your mask on your face.
-once you've reached the mooring line, descend along that line to the mooring point.
-swim into the lee of the superstructure to cut the current and move forward as best you can
To surface, let the current push you back to the mooring line.
-move up the line (flapping like a flag in the current) and do your safety stop.
-after you finished your stop grab on to the attached line that ran back to the granny line
-surface on the granny line and pull yourself back to the ladder.

With 4 or 5 boats tied in to the various mooring points, its not uncommon for divers to get confused about what line they are on and surface at the wrong boat.

Divers should always pay attention to their down line. They should make good note of it before staring the dive. Personally, I appreciate a down current line. I can make my way against the current for the dive and then have a leisurely drift back to the line at the end of the dive. I do this all the time at the Castor in Boynton Beach, FL. The current there can be quite brisk.

 

[Centrals]

Two down/up lines would be great, one each at the bow and the stern.
Always swim against the current, if there is any, in the beginning of the dive after reaching the wreck. Observe "rule of third" if the wreck is a big one.
If you cannot return to the line because of current or low in air or whatnot, just abort the dive and ascent. Now you wish you have all the signaling devices with you!!!

 

[johndiver999]

Do we really think divers can pull down a line on a 4 kt current?

I don't think I have ever tried a descent on a line in that much current. My unscientific guess is that about 2 kts would be approaching a reasonable maximum, but that is a guess. Anyone really know?