Missing Diver Off Vandenberg?

[sea_ledford]

If one Instructor/ DM claims that he/ she would be willing to lose his/ her house and pay damages for the rest of their life if they ever lose sight of a student or a customer, I would turn them down and say that they are both delusional and stupid.

That is exactly what liability insurance is for.

If they believe that they have eyesight on everyone under their responsibility 100% of the time, I would say that they are living in such a fantasy that they are dangerous. Hubris. Overinflating his/ her capabilities. This leads to not thinking of what to do when something goes wrong. Cause they are too good to have anything go wrong.

Why do you think the guide would need to have eyes on everyone 100% of the time? That doesn't even happen in an open water class or a Discover Scuba class. People don't even pay attention to themselves 100% of the time.

Anyone that wants a 100% full time babysitter shouldn't be diving. Or driving. Or walking upright. You are describing a first time parent of a newborn, not a dive guide.

 

[Micheal]

I remember reading the posts from when Lynne went missing. Peter said he took his eyes off her very briefly (to check gauges?) and then she was gone. Strong current, if I remember correctly.

This is one of the main reason I love AI. I lost my son just briefly (felt like forever) early on (less then 10 dives) in our dive careers because of looking at my gauge in high current. When my daughter started diving, we both go AI DC;s and I have never looked back.

Yes. The particular dive shop this diver was diving with the DM carries a slung 40 to hand off to any diver low on gas.

I have never understood diving below 90 feet on AL80s, I have only dove once in my career below 100 feet on an AL. Every other dive was on a steel, and most with 40 slung. The rules of 3rds and 6ths have never left my mind.

My comment is based on 27 years in the Dive Business. Also- In order to function as a "Guide" in the Florida Keys (and other places I've worked all over the world, with the exception of the Dominican Republic) one must be a Certified Divemaster or Instructor. Which means they SHOULD "know better". When one is put in charge of other divers, there in NO EXCUSE for "losing sight" of divers who have placed themselves in your care. NO EXCUSE whatsoever. It's just that simple. All REAL Dive Professionals know that.

I understand you analogy out in the open water, during a drift dive, or an easy dive reef in Cozumel, the Bahamas or the Philippines. Many of these dives you can hang from your flag and glide facing your group. But on a Wreck, in 2-4 knots current? I just do not see how you can keep even 75% of your focus on the divers. Can you post a video of your Technique doing this, so can learn from you?

I think a DM has the ethical responsibility to provide the services and guidance that is represented to the customers in the dive briefing and also within any written policy information which is provided to the customer(s).
When an accident occurs, the "responsibilities" of a DM may be interpreted by a lawyer.

This was covered a lot when I did my PADI DM over sea's a few years back. They keep reinforcing, in your Dive Brief, you must define your role. As a Dive Guide, you give a watchful eye, as you are in front. They would have us say Watchful eye, no less then 3 times per brief. As a DM, your role is different, you must be in a position to watch everyone as best as possible and provide assistance under the dive conditions. Even with that, they stressed you can not be perfect. Both roles, should cancel the dive if the conditions are out side the safety levels.

Was I taught incorrectly?

 

[Celt]

Why do people keep saying fully kitted divers are swimming against a 4 knot tide what kind of super humans are these divers, I’ve never seen any. How do they know it’s 4 knots

 

[johndiver999]

Why do people keep saying fully kitted divers are swimming against a 4 knot tide what kind of super humans are these divers, I’ve never seen any. How do they know it’s 4 knots

Swimming against a 4 kt current is ZERO problem.

Going forward while doing so....a different story..LOL People over-estimate current speed quite often.

 

[Wookie]

Swimming against a 4 kt current is ZERO problem.

Going forward while doing so....a different story..LOL People over-estimate current speed quite often.

I have seen 24” dia foam filled mooring balls pulled under there. 4 knots is not a bad guess. We shot it as a hot drop, not a moored dive. Divers were on the wreck a short time.

 

[Celt]

Swimming against a 4 kt current is ZERO problem.

Going forward while doing so....a different story..LOL People over-estimate current speed quite often.

I think Michael Phelps could do 5kn but shooting through a wreck at 4kn wouldn’t be my cup of tea

 

[Celt]

I have seen 24” dia foam filled mooring balls pulled under there. 4 knots is not a bad guess. We shot it as a hot drop, not a moored dive. Divers were on the wreck a short time.

At 400 fpm they got 1 minute 20 seconds

 

[Steelyeyes]

At 400 fpm they got 1 minute 20 seconds

I saw the sunken mooring ball and I thought, "Someone is out here stealing those buoys"

We diverted to the Cayman Salvor. It's aft buoy was, "missing" too. We made the dive. It was very short and my arms were sore for days from hanging onto the current line, the buoy line and eventually the fantail railing. I was flapping around like a rag doll. I had to make it back to the forward line so I ducked into swirls and eddies and kicked like crazy. It was zero fun.

 

[BRT]

I tend to agree with that. The DM and instructors who pretend they have more than 2 pairs of eyes and never lose sight of 4 divers under their responsibility leave me skeptical.

I'm fairly sure that when I can't see the divemaster in any direction, they can't see me. But apparently some of them have xray vision.

 

[BRT]

I think on an open water reef type of dive it's generally possible depending on visibility. On a follow the leader dive on a wreck, not so much.

How about in the clear waters of Cozumel? Among the towers of coral and the swimthroughs? Takes Xray vision and eyes in the back of your head, then it is easy.