Not a huge fan of my GoPro

[Blackcrusader]

BTW - here is my best GoPro footage: People are posting that it should do a "decent job" with links to tips and images/videos that aren't much better. I don't want anyone to get the impression all I got was pictures of my thumb and videos of my shoes and underwater videos so bad you can't tell what they are even of - although I got those too.

With my go Pro Hero4 Black

 

[Chris Ross]

That is a bit of an exaggeration. RX100VA comes with a regular 24-70mm lens which fits the usual housings. Models VI and VII do present a housing challenge with their long lens, and yes, you can't go between 130 degree wide angle and sandgrain-scale supermacro on the same dive, but no camera system will let you do that anyway. You can, however, outfit them with a long wide port and have a range of moderate wide angle (24mm through flat glass) to supermacro (90-200mm with diopters) or a short port and have a range of wide-angle/semi-fisheye (24-28mm through wet lens) to moderate macro (65mm through diopter). In this way, they are kind of like an ILC.

I said newer RX100, the VA is 2 models old isn't it? depends where you draw the line in the sand. I kind of think if you're going to change ports you may as well get an interchangeable lens camera - the 24-70 models are certainly the most versatile and I know I'd be bumping the port with the lens all the time zooming in on the short port but that's just me. I think though that 100° wide angle to little 20-30mm nudi scale is certainly achievable with two wet lenses and 100° to something 50-100mm long range is probably achievable with the bare lens and a wet wide lens.

 

[Barmaglot]

I said newer RX100, the VA is 2 models old isn't it?

No, VA is a refresh of V with the latest (at the time) electronics, but keeping the old lens for those who don't want the 24-200mm. It was released several months after VI, but before VII.

The 200mm full lens extension on VI and VII actually gives you more reach than just about any macro lens on an ILC, and the zoom capability affords flexibility in framing/distance that ILCs with fixed focal length macro lenses lack. You can also flip the diopter away and go semi-wide, again, not something you can do with ILCs. The fast flash sync speeds can also be considered an advantage.

 

[bvbellomo]

If I go TG6, I am going to want to upgrade right away. For those posting content, unless you are posting full resolution, it isn't telling me anything technical about the camera. Every full resolution TG6 picture lacks detail - pictures look like they either didn't focus sharply, or someone ran aggressive noise removal. I do think this would have been a better option than the GoPro for people to have recommended for my first trip.

The biggest advantage of the g7x is the amount of quality underwater images. I know I'd be happy with this camera for many years.

That PEN E-PL10 is exactly what I want on paper and not much more money. It seems like the base model is better than the g7x and lens options give me a lot more room to upgrade in the future. But I can't find a single underwater image. I think I'd be happy with this above water too.

RX100 seems like a little more money than a g7x for the same quality but more lens options.

Not sure how much it matters, but the RX100 and g7x seem like a big step up from the gopro for video, while the E-PL10 video might be a step back.

Everyone tells me brightness of my strobe is what limits my sensor size. What does anyone think about a single Z330? That is $650 and one of the brighter strobes and I'd think it was enough for anything. Backscatter also has a Kraken KR-S02 used for $400. The Inon S2000 seems like the best budget choice at $365. A $285 difference from the cheapest budget strobe to the brightest doesn't seem to fit with everyone telling me not to go DSLR unless I am willing to invest heavily.

Any other strobes to consider?

Does everyone with 2 strobes use the same kind? I'd think a pair mismatched strobes, if anything noticeable, would provide better images. But everyone I remember diving with multiple strobes had 2 of the same. It matters, because if I buy a single S2000, my next upgrade has to be a 2nd S2000, and if I upgrade further, I have to replace both.

 

[Barmaglot]

Everyone tells me brightness of my strobe is what limits my sensor size. What does anyone think about a single Z330? That is $650 and one of the brighter strobes and I'd think it was enough for anything. Backscatter also has a Kraken KR-S02 used for $400. The Inon S2000 seems like the best budget choice at $365. A $285 difference from the cheapest budget strobe to the brightest doesn't seem to fit with everyone telling me not to go DSLR unless I am willing to invest heavily.

Z-330 is a very good and popular option, although I have seen reports that their reliability is not what people are used to from the older Z-240 series. I have read a post on another forum from a user who took one apart and found that it's using the same tubes as the Z-240, but dumping twice as much energy into them when shooting at full power. I have personally seen one fail for no reason, but that's a very small sample size. S-2000 used to be the go-to option for shooting macro with compact cameras - they are very small and handy, allowing you to maneuver them into tight spots, although the controls are small and fiddly, complicating operation when you're wearing gloves in colder water. However, they've been supplanted in the macro strobe niche by Backscatter MF-1. I know a pro photographer who owns a pair of Retra Pros with all the accessories, yet puts a pair of MF-1s on his Nikon D500 during muck dives. The Kraken strobe is a bit of an oddball, it's got a circular flash tube, yet an oddly narrow beam at 90 degrees, and it lacks the ecosystem of accessories that exist for Inon, Sea & Sea and Retra strobes. It does feature a very large li-ion battery pack, as opposed to the more common set of 4xAA batteries, allowing for probably several days of shooting on a single charge, but I don't see that as a big selling point.

Any other strobes to consider?

Retra Flash Prime/Pro is a very good option, but pricey. SUPE D-MAX is your choice if you want ALL THE POWER!, but to be honest, they're probably overpowered for most situations. Backscatter MF-1 if you're going to shoot exclusively macro; they're mostly useless for wide angle but brilliant for macro and snooting. SeaFrogs has a new strobe out, copying the layout of Sea & Sea YS-Dx series, but I have no idea if they have resolved the problems of their earlier model that was 'inspired' by Inon. I had a pair of those, and despite their long list of features, they had a critical weakness: when triggering by fiber optics, they worked only as TTL slaves; the power adjustment controls did absolutely nothing. If the new SF01 model resolves that issue, then it's basically a Sea & Sea YS-D2/D3 at half the cost, but without the ecosystem of accessories. Speaking of Sea & Sea YS-D2/D3, they seem to be plagued by reliability problems, so I'd avoid them.

Does everyone with 2 strobes use the same kind? I'd think a pair mismatched strobes, if anything noticeable, would provide better images. But everyone I remember diving with multiple strobes had 2 of the same. It matters, because if I buy a single S2000, my next upgrade has to be a 2nd S2000, and if I upgrade further, I have to replace both.

Using two different model strobes is almost universally a bad idea. On my recent liveaboard, a diver in my group had one of his YS-D2s burn out, and I loaned him one of my old SeaFrogs strobes that I brought along as backups. According to him, it was better than shooting with one strobe... but only just; matching the output of two completely different strobes is quite a difficult process. Sometimes you want to run one strobe 1-1.5 stops higher than the other to create some shadows on the subject, giving it a bit of extra definition, but that's an advanced and situational technique - not something that you'd be using all the time.

Note that strobes generally hold their value pretty well on the used market. Every time I see used strobes being posted on classifieds forums, they're snapped up very quickly, at prices surprisingly close to retail. Older housings tend to plummet in value, but strobes usually don't, so if and when you upgrade, you can quite easily recover most of the cost of your older pair.

 

[kelemvor]

Another point - Get a vacuum system!!!! Never underestimate the ability of salt water to destroy electronics and a dunk in rinse tank is not really a test and don't assume rinse tank water is all that fresh. O-rings need pressure to seal- the deeper you go the stronger the seal. The vacuum system pre-loads the o-rings and helps prevent leaks on the surface or in the rinse tank (don't leave your camera unattended in the rinse tank ever). Bumping a port can dislodge it enough to let some water in. You pull the vacuum to about the equivalent of 2m depth and do it half an hour before diving, air leaks faster than water and if you don't get a noticeable leak in that time the housing is sealed properly. The force holding your port in place at this vacuum is about 20lb, the force holding the back door closed is significantly greater like about 60 lb. This is significant and a big advantage and a cheap insurance policy.

I hope this isn't too much of a hijack. I've always wondered why you use vacuum in a camera housing instead of pressurizing it. Seems a bit counter-intuitive to create a suction in order to keep something out. Inquiring minds and all that.

 

[arew+4]

Mimics the underwater pressure gradient.

 

[bvbellomo]

Just speculating, but you might need an extra gauge or pressure relief valve with a pressurized housing. If you design your housing for 30 psi, you have to deal with cameras exploding from customers using too much pressure. With a vacuum, you can design for 0, even you don't get there, you can be certain your housing withstands it.

 

[rx7diver]

Interesting thread. Thank you to the OP and to all the contributors. I keep hoping to learn that there exists an U/W digital camera system that is as simple and relatively svelte, and capable, as my old Nikonos V with 15mm U/W Nikkor lens and single SB105 strobe.

rx7diver

 

[Degenerate]

I hope this isn't too much of a hijack. I've always wondered why you use vacuum in a camera housing instead of pressurizing it. Seems a bit counter-intuitive to create a suction in order to keep something out. Inquiring minds and all that.

Negative pressure inside the housing will definitely pull the door on the housing shut assuming it's a tight seal, allowing the O ring seals to do their work.
Positive pressure would do the exact opposite, which is not great.

Probably, I'm not an expert on cameras though.