Lost Indonesian Submarine

[Akimbo]

just interested in why they have to wait for a slow cumbersome ship to arrive

Slow and cumbersome compared to what? Are you thinking of flying divers to the ships on site by chopper? They might do that if they had qualified military divers but I can't see some admiral saying, "a TDI rebreather C-card will be fine".

am i over simplifying it?

Probably. Bureaucracies are very reluctant to use non-professionals for any potentially dangerous task. The risk to the decision-maker's career is enormous if they add civilian amature divers to the body count. I have no doubt that plenty of tech divers would volunteer for the task but the best they could hope to accomplish is find the wreck/coffin. Anyone alive would be hammering SOS on the hull which any number of ASW (Anti-submarine Warfare) vessels and aircraft searching the area could detect from many miles away.

 

[Centrals]

100 Russian crew trapped on stricken nuclear submarine

Nor many countries have equipment to deal with submarine accident even if it happens on your door step.

Russian deep submergence rescue vehicle AS-28 - Wikipedia

Russian submarine Kursk (K-141) - Wikipedia


40 yrs old submarine should had been retired long time ago.

 

[Dan]

 

[LCoolio]

There is about zero chance it is sitting in 300' of water. The normal operating envelope of submarines requires far more depth below the keel in order to dive.

That's not entirely true, most submarines will dive as soon as enough water is under the keel to get under, plus a small safety margin. It is possible that a submarine could have an emergency and be stuck on the bottom in 100m or less of water. For example, the average depth in the Baltic Sea is 50m, and there are plenty of subs operating in there.

As for this particular sub, you're probably right, its probably too deep

 

[Dan]

KRI Nanggala 402 crew last gathering in a coffee shop before boarding the sub.

 

[Centrals]

Indonesia: Scan detects missing submarine as debris is found by search teams

On eternal patrol.

RIP

 

[HKGuns]

That's not entirely true, most submarines will dive as soon as enough water is under the keel to get under, plus a small safety margin. It is possible that a submarine could have an emergency and be stuck on the bottom in 100m or less of water. For example, the average depth in the Baltic Sea is 50m, and there are plenty of subs operating in there.

Yes, it is entirely true, at least in the US Navy. I have way too many surface transits under my belt and know the facts, which are classified. It is usually best not to talk about stuff when you have no direct knowledge of the subject.

RIP to the crew of the Indonesian Sub.

 

[KevinNM]

100 Russian crew trapped on stricken nuclear submarine

Nor many countries have equipment to deal with submarine accident even if it happens on your door step.

Russian deep submergence rescue vehicle AS-28 - Wikipedia

Russian submarine Kursk (K-141) - Wikipedia


40 yrs old submarine should had been retired long time ago.

Apparently they never added the docking collar needed for rescues at depth. So even if a rescue sub had found it intact at 700m they probably couldn't have done anything useful.

 

[Akimbo]

There is about zero chance it is sitting in 300' of water. The normal operating envelope of submarines requires far more depth below the keel in order to dive.

That's not entirely true,...

Yes, it is entirely true, at least in the US Navy.

You two are both correct. Submarines "can" operate in shallower water when the mission requires it, but it is much more difficult and risky. The "normal operating envelope" is over water that is far deeper than crush depth, for many different reasons.

• A very small percentage of the ocean is less than 300'/90M deep.
• Most water that shallow is well inside territorial limits where the rules of engagement have far worse consequences of being detected.
• It is much harder for submarines to hide from acoustic and magnetic detection and still maintain headway. The reason that most modern submarines are rated for more than 600'/200M is there are thermal and biological layers for them to hide in and under. See Wikipedia: Deep scattering layer
• The risk of collision with the topography goes up dramatically. They may as was well be on the surface with their running lights and radar on compared to using active sonar to avoid grounding and collision. I understand that some "special projects" boats have installed bow and stern thrusters to support very low speed maneuvering.
• Fishing nets. Can you imagine wrapping a mile of trawler net around your prop inside hostile territory and not having divers aboard to clear it? That is one of many reasons sub skippers hate operating near the bottom.

It is definitely NOT like in the movies.

Ping: @Bob DBF

 

[Mod63]

You two are both correct. Submarines "can" operate in shallower water when the mission requires it, but it is much more difficult and risky. The "normal operating envelope" is over water that is far deeper than crush depth, for many different reasons.

Just on a technical side note. KRI Nanggala was a German 209/1300 class type U-Boat. As German U-Boats are based in the Baltic Sea, and one of the requirements was close costal operations, one design specification is that they can operate there.