14yr old came up at end of 2nd open water dive and is now scared

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The PADI guidelines state the 5 OW dives are supposed to be done over 2 days,

Err no. The STANDARDS say "conduct no more than THREE training dives in any one day". They say that clearly. Its a standard not a guideline.
Open Water also only has 4 open water dives which by that standard MUST take 2 days.

but the shop I did them with was willing to do them all in one day, provided I started very early and was willing to stay out on the boat w/o returning, doing generous surface intervals.

So in short the shop you did it with were knowingly and wilfully breaking agency training standards. Name and shame them.

 

[flots am]

Wow, multiple lawsuits for wrongful injuries / deaths are foreseen in the future for that dive shop. Followed closely by bankruptcy, both business and personal, finished off by possible jail term for negligence.
Why would you even consider going to a shop that openly will violate standards? Do they take that little care with everything they do? When was that air in the tank last tested? Do they even service their rental regs at all?
That shop has opened up a big can of worms with a very unhappy ending coming fast.

Seriously? Overreact much?

It's 4 (5?) short, shallow dives in one day. This is unlikely to have any serious consequences except pissing off PADI if they get a report, and leaving the OP tired, but certified.

I wouldn't recommend doing all the dives in one day, but it's not going to kill anybody either. I've done five dives in a day. The only bad effect was that I slept late the next morning and missed breakfast.

flots.

 

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I wouldn't recommend doing all the dives in one day, but it's not going to kill anybody either

Many confirmed incidents exist of instructors (and students) getting bent as a result of multiple shallow dives with relatively short surface intervals.

If you're going to ignore safety and training standard why not go the whole way and just do 1 dive and issue a cert? Its just as outside what is permitted.

 

[oly5050user]

Err no. The STANDARDS say "conduct no more than THREE training dives in any one day". They say that clearly. Its a standard not a guideline.
Open Water also only has 4 open water dives which by that standard MUST take 2 days.



So in short the shop you did it with were knowingly and wilfully breaking agency training standards. Name and shame them.

Knowingly breaking standards like that is a sign of a facility that is NOT run in a professional manner,just to make the $ and send the customer off.They know that most likely they will never see them again. I tell prospective DM's and instructors at any IDC I staff that a sign of professionalism is the ability to adhear to a set of standards.Fall out of established standards by not meeting them or exceeding them and there is no professionalism, also opening up yourself to liability suits.
This is how people get hurt. Wonder what other "shortcuts" this facility is doing?

 

[flots am]

Many confirmed incidents exist of instructors (and students) getting bent as a result of multiple shallow dives with relatively short surface intervals..

Violating the no-deco limit is quite different than violating PADI standards.

I really couldn't care less if someone does 4 planned no-deco dives in a day. They're not going to get magically more resistant to nitrogen after the c-card arrives.

If the NDL tables and computers are OK for the rest of us, they're good enough for students.

flots.

 

[tlj3071]

...I will have my husband ask about the one minute mask rule and why they do it if PADI doesn't require it.

My son-in-law had severe problems with the mask removal/replacement. Always wanted to bolt to the surface. This was true even after he was certified! I convinced him that as long as he had air, being able to see well wasn't really a problem, and that to convince himself of this, he should practice (in shallow water) removing his mask and waiting awhile - just concentrating on breathing - before re-donning and clearing it. This worked well, and soon he was repeating the procedure in deeper water. He is now very confident in this particular skill. The key was having him realize that as long as you have air, pretty much everything else is gravy and is fixable u/w.

Tom

 

[Rhone Man]

Just going to make one quick comment - I am not convinced that it is necessarily related to his age.

There are plenty of would-be divers of all ages who just don't get comfortable with that skill in particular. You see it all the time with DSDs.

 

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Violating the no-deco limit is quite different than violating PADI standards.

Who said anything about violating a no deco limit (which incidentally is also a PADI standard). ?

If the NDL tables and computers are OK for the rest of us, they're good enough for students.
flots.

And as i said there are many recorded incidents of instructors and students getting bent on dives WELL inside the NDLs and computer models. The models simply aren't accurate for a large number of repeat dives with short intervals several of which involving rapid ascents!
People can and do get bent on these profiles.

 

[flots am]

Who said anything about violating a no deco limit (which incidentally is also a PADI standard). ?

You did:

"Many confirmed incidents exist of instructors (and students) getting bent as a result of multiple shallow dives with relatively short surface intervals"

If there are "Many confirmed incidents exist of instructors (and students) getting bent " then they are obviously violating the tables, since DCS from shallow repetitive dives not occur frequently on non-training dives.

And as i said there are many recorded incidents of instructors and students getting bent on dives WELL inside the NDLs and computer models. The models simply aren't accurate for a large number of repeat dives with short intervals several of which involving rapid ascents!
People can and do get bent on these profiles.

The divetables are based on specific ascent rates. Rapid ascents mean the divers are not following the tables and are therefore not diving within the parameters of the NDL tables.

flots.

 

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You did:

"Many confirmed incidents exist of instructors (and students) getting bent as a result of multiple shallow dives with relatively short surface intervals"

No i didnt. Where are multiple shallow dives with relatively short surface intervals outside the tables? They aren't.

If there are "Many confirmed incidents exist of instructors (and students) getting bent " then they are obviously violating the tables, since DCS from shallow repetitive dives not occur frequently on non-training dives.

Again they aren't. Unfortunately you're just spouting nonsense. They occur on training and non training dives and are completely within tables regarding the depths, times, ascent rates AND surface interval recommendations.

You seem completely unaware or more likely, unwilling to admit that tables and the models used in them are far from perfect. Recreational tables have an average rate of 1:5000 to 1:10000 DCS hits for people diving well within these limits. The incident rate is statistically higher where people have performed multiple shallow dives with shortish surface intervals. Tables are NOT known theory, they do NOT model accurately what happens in the body. They are nothing more than a statistical tool used to bring the risk down to an acceptable level.