1st Timer to Thailand...

[stevenl]

I have to disagree with this, Thai banks don't exactly make it easy to have this service available. Most often a hefty deposit is required before such a service is made available.

Are you a professional liveaboard agent?

The only credit card payment option I have is through PayPal, this implies however that the receiver will have to set up a PayPal account.

Incorrect, credit card payments can be made via Paypal without opening an account.

Providing you're a TAT registered company in Thailand, that will see you deposit 100.00,-THB in an escrow account with TAT for having a website and a similar amount in deposit with a bank for having the option for offering credit card payments.
That's a lot of money!

Paypal works perfectly for this, as does e.g. Thai E-Pay, and there are similar 3rd party services. Also Thai banks really are not retarded, although sometimes I also think so, and they do offer this service without any kind of deposit, some even without too much hassle.
A professional liveaboard agent should IMO have a credit card payment service set up, it can be arranged easily, even in Thailand, so that really is no excuse.

It is simply more convenient for guests to pay, it just takes a bit of effort to set it up.

 

[limbo]

Agree that a professional live aboard company should have a credit card payment option.
Your comment about PayPal and paying by credit card is also correct, my wrong!

Thai banks unfortunately don't seem to think that logic and so far I haven't seen any banks on Samui that offer a credit card machine/option without too much hassle.

Getting a Thai credit card as a foreigner is even a hassle.

 

[stevenl]

Thai banks unfortunately don't seem to think that logic and so far I haven't seen any banks on Samui that offer a credit card machine/option without too much hassle.

I have a not too big DC, but have had no problems acquiring an EDC (credit card machine). Was with Bank of Ayudhya, am just changing to Kasikorn because their service I like better. Company papers, rental contract, ID, bank book, and all done.

Next step will be to get their (Kasikorn's) E-pay facility, the same system e.g. Thai E-pay is using. When that works ok I can get rid of Paypal, which is more expensive.

 

[Quero]

Are you a professional liveaboard agent?

Incorrect, credit card payments can be made via Paypal without opening an account.

Paypal works perfectly for this, as does e.g. Thai E-Pay, and there are similar 3rd party services. Also Thai banks really are not retarded, although sometimes I also think so, and they do offer this service without any kind of deposit, some even without too much hassle.
A professional liveaboard agent should IMO have a credit card payment service set up, it can be arranged easily, even in Thailand, so that really is no excuse.

It is simply more convenient for guests to pay, it just takes a bit of effort to set it up.

Respectfully disagree. I've got two credit card payment options (through two different banks), but they were far from a snap to set up, and only the one which requires the credit card to be physically swiped through the machine was free with no required deposit. The fixed deposit I made for "mail order" and web-based charging privileges was several times more than the required deposit for the TAT. Pay Pal only works if you want to accept payments as an individual--getting a commercial PayPal account in Thailand is more trouble than I was willing to go to. I've also tried Thai E-Pay and found it inefficient given the lag in receiving the funds and the inflated service charges.

The long and the short of it is that wire transfers are quite usual here and shouldn't make any customer feel that the agent s/he is working with is less than honest and correct.

 

[Batfish]

We have online payment, easy to use from the Siam Commercial Bank. Yes it takes a deposit to set it up. I do kind of agree with Steven that any decent company who has been around for some years should have online credit card payment as an option. We did start with only bank transfer options but found it too limiting and too many people were requesting to pay by credit card - after all, if you pay by card you probably get reward points or airmiles or maybe travel insurance, all kind of benefits. Some people prefer bank transfer and we can do that too.

 

[stevenl]

and only the one which requires the credit card to be physically swiped through the machine was free with no required deposit.

So you managed to set up a credit card facility at your 'shop'.

The fixed deposit I made for "mail order" and web-based charging privileges was several times more than the required deposit for the TAT.

You can get for a reasonable deposit, less than the 100.000 Baht TAT requirement anyway. I know quite some shops that do, and I'm looking, as mentioned, at doing this myself shortly.

Pay Pal only works if you want to accept payments as an individual--getting a commercial PayPal account in Thailand is more trouble than I was willing to go to.

That really depends on how you have set up your bank accounts. We accept Paypal and it gets transfered to our shop account.

I've also tried Thai E-Pay and found it inefficient given the lag in receiving the funds and the inflated service charges.

Yes, quite a timelag, but otherwise works fine.

The long and the short of it is that wire transfers are quite usual here and shouldn't make any customer feel that the agent s/he is working with is less than honest and correct.

True, but IMO not professional. But hey, I'm not a customer here.

 

[Quero]

So you managed to set up a credit card facility at your 'shop'.

Two of them, in fact.

 

[Luko]

Wire transfers are standard practice.

As a regular South Eastern Asia customer, I have to strongly disagree with you, Quero.
Most of the replies have been on the pro's perspective, I have to step in and give you a customer's point of view (who's also a tourism consultant btw...).

I have NEVER (I underline the word NEVER) been asked a wire transfer in my 6 or more Thailand inland/underwater trips. All my bills where paid on my credit card (including Steven's though he's not the only business I used, even in Phuket...).

Otherwise, I have only been asked once to pay a deposit for a dive center in Indonesia using wire transfer... and quite strangely I wouldn't recommend this operation, because of their poor customer management.

Tourism business managers have to understand that wire transfer is not that common in many parts of Europe and can cost a LOT compared to the price of the product that was purchased. This is not a good service that you are delivering to your customers but rather a service that benefits to yourselves, it doesn't provide any value to your guests, more than that : it may sometimes bother. I can tell you that transfering money from France is a pain in the neck : it takes me almost a half day with paperwork, faxing documents, going to the bank, etc. while it should take no more than 10 minutes with a credit card. The cerdit card fees is YOUR problem, as a customer I don't want to hear about them, adjust your price accordingly!

You also have to know that most of the high end credit cards includes a cancellation insurance for anything that has been paid for, asking to pay by wire transfer means your customer is not protected on that side. If I break my leg two days before going on holiday, my credit card company will refund my deposit whereas if I paid by wire transfer I am screwed : do you call that a customer service? ...

Personally, I absolutely do not feel that the asian dive centre I am contracting with is more honest when I am asked to pay a deposit on a british or german bank ... or even sometimes on a taxfree area bank like I was asked for that Indonesian dive center.

My recommendation upon that peculiar operation would be : Warning!!! They're here for your money first, your satisfaction comes only second.

 

[Quero]

Luko, I respect your opinion, and you have every right to use whatever criteria you wish to decide whom to do business with. If payment options are high on your list of criteria, that's your privilege.

Every customer is different, however. Some of my customers don't want to pay by credit card because the banks typically skew the exchange rates and add a steep percentage for foreign currency charges in addition to other fees. (There are currently large class-action suits filed against certain credit card companies due to this practice.) Other customers do like to use credit cards, particularly because they can get "points". My own invoices carry a list of different ways customers can make payment. They choose; I don't. That's what I call customer service.

Regardless, of what I do, or what Steve does, or what you prefer, the OP seemed to be asking whether he should be worried about fraud if an agent requested a wire transfer. Quite frankly, I do find it objectionable to suggest that anyone who hasn't invested in the process of credit card payments is unprofessional. It really doesn't reflect on the honesty of the agent or whether s/he will defraud the customer. Much more important is the relationship the client has developed with the agent. If there isn't confidence there, providing credit card information, sending wire transfers, using Western Union, or paying cash--it makes no difference. When I book trips or tours or air tickets or whatever as a customer, I won't work with anybody I don't have confidence in, regardless of the payment options.

If the OP is otherwise happy with the agent, the payment options are secondary. If he has other reasons to doubt that he's receiving good service, then the lack of a credit card payment option may be enough to make him take his business elsewhere. That is certainly his prerogative. I wouldn't personally discourage any diver planning to come to Phuket from booking with a particular agent based solely on payment options. I'm glad they're coming and that somebody is getting their business.

 

[Luko]

Quero, one of the fun of this SB Thailand board is that it is mostly populated with dive industry professionals or related... more densely than the other regional boards. Hence any commentary about the way this one or another dive operation makes its business will always be followed by what I would name a “corporate defense to critics”. I'm only slightly disappointed you are bringing the topic on these grounds.

During my daytime work, I often hear :

Every customer is different, however.

Usually our clients will also add.. "and we are operating a different business too" ... until we convince them there is only ONE thing that counts : what the clients ACTUALLY say and what they experience at the end of the day.
It happens my work is specialized in tourism reservation systems and web platforms, on what we see, trust me, ease of payment can hit high on the customer selection...especially on a market where there are different options for buying a similar service.

Batfish said it all when stressing on the fact credit card is widely asked by the customers for payment. This is not a novelty, all the current online sales surveys stress on the fact there is very little fear about online credit card payment remaining from the old Internet days.
I am quite skeptical with the justifications on the benefits of wire transfer for the client side... at least in most parts of Europe.
For example, I do not agree with what you claim about credit card fees for many European countries,… I cannot speak for the US. I do experience at least three times a year that credit card exchange rates are much more advantageous than any exchange rate you can find for cash for example, you’d need to transfer a very hefty amount to pay less fees than with a credit card (imagine that for any wire transfer implying a different currency than euro, I have to shell out a flat fee of 25€ over the exchange fees and then the recipient will ask me to pay his own bank charges).

Kudos to you if you can provide a choice of payment means to your customers, that's where I do follow you... But going back to the poster's concerns, I don't understand this is the case : he's been asked a wire transfer. Period. NOT a choice between wire transfer and credit card payment, that's where I think it's steep. (or my bad if I didn't understand well his post... )

the OP seemed to be asking whether he should be worried about fraud if an agent requested a wire transfer.

I have not limited my understanding on this sole interpretation of his question, I reckoned it was a broader question. As I understand it, the poster asked whether that was common practise to be asked ONLY for wire transfer, independantly of the fraud issue (ie "Is it a professional way to restrict the term of payment?").
Many other posters agreed on the fact that the credit card option should be a minimum requirement for the customer. For me, as a business consultant it is a lack of service to the customer, hence I am entitled to wonder which other services would be missing on other aspects... for instance, how should he pay the balance? beforehand with another wire transfer? By bringing lots of cash?

Much more important is the relationship the client has developed with the agent

C'mon, Quero : how can you REALLY assess the relationship with your agent on the basis of two or three mails. On my last experience with that indonesian agent who I had to transfer his money to a bank located in a european taxfree zone, the manager replied very happily to my emails.
I went over my wire transfer dread and was confident it would be a good dive trip : in the end I was very disappointed, and only marginally for the fact the manager didn't even care about meeting her clients (she only had max of 6 clients per week to handle).
Don't misunderstand what I am writing : I am not saying that having no other choice than wire transfer payments automatically means that the agent is a scammer, but for me as a business consultant the “wire transfer symptom” COULD be a signal that the operation is not fully dedicated to customer service.

Oh yeah, and btw, you can ask Steven, I am probably demanding but not the kind of "difficult to handle client" if you thought I was.