2 more upper keys dive fatalities, 8/6/2011

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Additional details starting to come out, according to investigators:

- Male had some permanent medical issues but reportedly was relatively experienced (how experienced that was remains to be determined).
- However, he was wearing gear purchased previous day, which included an integrated weight system. He may have added weight following his first dive.
- First diver to reach him could not inflate her BC; the hose apparently had been disconnected due to a leak. She survived.
- Second diver to reach him did not have an octo. She and the male apparently died while trying to share her main (and only) second stage.
- No one knows exactly what happened after the first would-be rescuer surfaced.

Thanks for sharing. Not rental gear like I suspected, but close enough. The lack of an octo on the one diver is shocking, though. I've always been leery of weight integration designs. Some of them are so obfuscated they just look like another unnecessary clip put on the BC for styling. I'm not trying to place the blame solely on this, because it seems like numerous errors compounded to create a deadly situation.
 
PLEASE don't lump all tech divers . . . you were unfortunate to run into a couple of self-centered a-holes, but that was them personally, not the tech divers in whole.
Point taken, and much appreciated, and I concur. It is certainly not my goal to "lump" all tech divers. My immediate group of dive buddies includes Professional Tech Divers/CCR who work for various law enforcement, rescue, harbor, up to the Federal/Military level. If anyone on this planet should have an ego, it would be these guys, BUT, they don't. All decent guys, humbled, fun to be around and dive with, a million stories, and proud to serve.
 
Holy crap. Ask and Yee shall receive. Sorry to hear this. (we suspected the 1st diver had a disconnected inflator)

"for the loss of a nail, the war was lost"

Dragging a sinking diver up with the lift of my BC would not be my first choice. Worth a try if others fail, but one slip & loss and the pair would separate at an accelerated rate. Orally inflating a BC at depth is not too inviting either but jerking out half of the sinker's weights is, if a good buddy check covers the how-to. I've had buds who had to show me how theirs released, one of those important things to know - but even the sinker didn't know. Sad that they didn't think of ditching his new kit. Hell, DAN's dive insurance will pay for it in an accident, unless the diver chose the cheapest plan.

It surprised me to read that the second rescuer didn't have an alternate second stage. Damn! That's a pony reg, not a diver's reg. WTH? :no: And the other one had a leaking inflator huh? Gear safety is paramount at depth.
 
WOW! I can visualize step by step what happened in my mind based on what information is available and realize how many links in the accident chain there were. What a difference I could see if there was one person with a problem solving mind set. (Competent DM?) Not going to sit here and arm chair what should or could have been done. Its pretty plain too see. My Hope would be every instructor would use this accident to POUND home the importance of being an active, practicing, competent diver after cert. Or at least tell them to get a refresher course if they go without diving for some time. If not for at least the sake of themselves, but for the poor fumbling divers we often do see on a charter. Such a sad underline to something so common sense. Condolences and Prayers to all involved.
 
I was up on the Spiegel and French and heard the whole thing on the radio.... they WERE drift diving without a float/flag..... someone from the boat crew (Bob, I think was the name of the boat - IDK if commercial or private) did go in and try a search.

This was one of those sad cases of ill-trained divers getting into trouble and making it worse by not knowing what to do. Who dives without an octo in 2011? WTF?

Unfortunately, this happens and will continue to happen as long as training agencies continue to crank out C cards for anyone with $300. I'm sure this has been said before... but since I was certified (1979) training standards have loosened up quite a bit. My DM class 5 years ago FINALLY exceeded in level of detail what I was taught at the YMCA OW class "back in the day"....
 
Additional details starting to come out, according to investigators:

- Male had some permanent medical issues but reportedly was relatively experienced (how experienced that was remains to be determined).
- However, he was wearing gear purchased previous day, which included an integrated weight system. He may have added weight following his first dive.
- First diver to reach him could not inflate her BC; the hose apparently had been disconnected due to a leak. She survived.
- Second diver to reach him did not have an octo. She and the male apparently died while trying to share her main (and only) second stage.
- No one knows exactly what happened after the first would-be rescuer surfaced.


This is very interesting and useful information. Since everyone is making wild guesses, i might as well too.

The survivor sounds like she decided to dive with a non functioning power inflator. To me, that is indicative of either a stupid risk taking diver or possibly someone who is confident in her skills and does not want to miss a dive due to a minor gear problem. Saturday, I let me 13 yr old do a 60 foot dive with an unconnected inflator hose because it was auto-inflating. Neither he nor i thought it to be a big deal, but to be honest, a power inflating BC can be a huge help in a rescue situation when you have your hands full. The diver WAS handicapped without a power inflator.

As for the newly purchased BC and an inability to dump integrated weights... I can easily see someone who is experienced not worrying too much about the details and not being comfortable with ditching weight. Lets's face it, if you have never used a weight integrated Bc and have never developed the muscle memory and "finger touch familiarity" with the gear through multiple practice sessions, it is very easy to see how someone could be unable to ditch lead in a true emergency.

As for the female fatality who was reported to not be using an octopus, that also sounds to me like some old time diver who feels comfortable buddy breathing and has no desire to add an additional failure point that an octopus represents.

I myself had an OOG situation with a diver in 90 feet and without power inflating BC's I was NOT at all happy about sharing a single second stage and having to orally inflate a BC and not drop my loaded speargun, light and bag full of lobsters.. After that dive, I always have an octopus when diving with a buddy, so I personally think that diving without an octopus was a poor decision, even if you yourself are very comfortable with buddy breathing.

This incident is fitting into the classic scenario of cascading failures or inabilities (i.e., no redundancy, no octo, no power inflator, and unfamilarity with new gear) all come together in a perfect storm after one individual makes the simple mistake of running low on air.

Remember this was an accident in relatively shallow water with probably little or no exposure protection (water was probably 83-86 degrees), so suit compression and those types of issues were probably non existant or minor.

I continue to prefer weight belts over weight integration and I also wonder that if the guy was over weighted, why the female couldn't just fully inflate her BC and drag him to the surface?

Wonder if she had one of those super low volume BC's that work fine for diving in a bathing suit, but do not have the capacity to really help much in an emergency with a bigger and stronger victim? Along with an having an octopus, I prefer to have a BC that has some extra lift in reserve for that rare emergency.

Very sad accident.
 
Wow... speculation abounds.

Just one quick point -- if you've practiced with your gear's critical aspects (inflate/deflate; standard/integrated octos; integrated ditchable weight/weight belt)... which is your responsibility whether it's unfamiliar rental gear you put on an hour before the dive, or a new purchase that you've had a single day to work with, it's not the fault of the gear if you don't know how to use it.

There's nothing wrong with integrated weight if you *and* your buddy took a moment to look at it, and try it... if only once before a dive. I've used ripcord (Zeagle - which you may not want to try *just* before the dive), Surelock (AquaLung), Quick Buckle (DiveRite), and weight belts. Personally, I haven't found *any* difference in difficulty in deploying *any* of them, as long as you understand (and have practiced) how they work -- further, I believe that's true of any aspect of any gear.

Not being able to ditch integrated weights is not a gear problem. It's a training/familiarity problem.
 
"I let me 13 yr old do a 60 foot dive with an unconnected inflator"


This is nuts..... sorry... but nuts. I know many of us started diving with a tank, single reg, and a Led Zep t-shirt -- I did....... But that doesn't mean modern safety devices should be discarded for the sake of saving a dive.
 
Wow ... reading this is just sad. How many things can one group of divers do wrong?

Running out of air
Lack of familiarity with equipment
Lack of ability to self-rescue

I don't know if this was a case of poor training or just a bunch of people who were taking their diving way too casually ... but with this many things going wrong, this accident was inevitable.

Somebody mentioned earlier that equipment should be idiot proof ... No ... I don't believe that. Idiots should be prevented from diving ... Darwin is way too fond of them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Wow... speculation abounds.

Just one quick point -- if you've practiced with your gear's critical aspects (inflate/deflate; standard/integrated octos; integrated ditchable weight/weight belt)... which is your responsibility whether it's unfamiliar rental gear you put on an hour before the dive, or a new purchase that you've had a single day to work with, it's not the fault of the gear if you don't know how to use it.

There's nothing wrong with integrated weight if you *and* your buddy took a moment to look at it, and try it... if only once before a dive. I've used ripcord (Zeagle - which you may not want to try *just* before the dive), Surelock (AquaLung), Quick Buckle (DiveRite), and weight belts. Personally, I haven't found *any* difference in difficulty in deploying *any* of them, as long as you understand (and have practiced) how they work -- further, I believe that's true of any aspect of any gear.

Not being able to ditch integrated weights is not a gear problem. It's a training/familiarity problem.


I'm not blaming the accident on an integrated weight system. Anyone who decides to dive with equipment that they can not dive with safely is making a poor choice, but I am not a fan of integrated weighting systems and I am clearly in the minority.
 
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