3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

[Knight]

There should be dive law that if you go into wreck/cave/etc etc you must use rope (dive reel) there is just no excuse what-so-ever if you been in the business long anough you to have heard/known smoeone die due to it. Unless you know the wreck/cave/etc like the back of your hand and if this is true that the divers here did not bring ropes then I really feel sorry such ashame and the sad thing one of the divers who was not in charge problay had no idea what was going on until the end again sorry for lose if anyone knew these divers.

Always descending,
C.H.

 

[gypsydiver19]

I know there is considerable speculation as to all that has happened but does anyone know if there has been a successful recovery at this time? I am hearing so many conflicting stories, the media around here is really having some issues reporting this.

 

[H2Andy]

yes, all the bodies have been recovered

http://www.miamiherald.com/459/story/44742.html

 

[djanni]

You know, the biggest lesson I take away from this, and Donathan's death, is that I hope I will always be scared of certain things underwater. I think fear is useful; it makes you careful, and keeps you conservative. As I look forward to getting some cave training, I need to remember that it's good to be a little scared.

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I'd just as soon stay risk-averse. Neither do I want to die in a cave, nor do I want to put somebody else at risk to recover my body. I'll stay scared, thank you.

I have to say I'm right there with you on that one.

 

[thedegnans]

They were from South Jersey, like me. They showed pictures of thim (ID photos) and two looked familier, but I can not say that we knew them. We have not had the chance to dive the SG yet, but we do know that a penetration dive at that depth is too risky for our skill level.

What a tragedy. Such an early reminder in the season to be conservative, and play safe.

 

[BKP]

When we did the Spiegel, we were hanging on the descent/ascent lines like flags in the wind... However, the water was warm, 70+ viz, and just moderate current on the deck itself. We stuck to the minor swimthrus on the upper decks, and didn't consider it a "dangerous" dive at all.

I'm familiar with silting, and wouldn't consider any serious penetration on a deep wreck without a reel, doubles, and stages. I'm not a caver, however, I'd expect the same rules apply (reels, secondary/tertiary lights, long octo hose, rule of thirds, etc.) to a serious wreck penetration. Is this not covered in all the wreck specialty courses? (that's a serious question -- I'm planning on a wreck course, and simply don't know).

I agree with many of the above posters. I prefer to control my own destiny, and take responsibility for the results of my own actions. I don't want to be "limited." At the same time, I'm a big advocate of 'over-planning' and 'over-cautious.'

It knots my gut whenever I hear of a diving accident... preventable or not... However, I think we, the divers, are ultimately responsible for ourselves. That means prepping properly; getting the right training if we don't yet have it; thumbing a dive if we feel we're in 'too deep.'

 

[Rick Murchison]

There should be dive law ...

No, there ought not to be dive law.
Rick

 

[keyshunter]

From Monroe County Sheriff's Department, Saturday evening:

Monroe County Sheriff's Office
Daily Crime and Information Report
March 17, 2007 - 6:45 p.m.

Detectives investigate deaths

Key Largo, Fla. - Monroe County Sheriff's Detectives are investigating the deaths of three divers who entered the wreck of the Spiegel Grove Friday and never came out.

Lead Detective Mark Coleman says he has discovered some reasons why this terrible tragedy may have occurred, besides the fact that the men were diving in an area of the ship not intended for such forays.

According to Detective Coleman:

The men, all experienced divers, did not have a dive plan. A dive plan, he says, is crucial in order to make sure all participants in the dive know what to expect, and to make sure the divers are properly prepared for the coming dive.

The men had no dive reels with them to show them the way out of the wreck. Dive reels are spools of line which are attached at the entrance to the dive. The divers let out line as they progress and, thus, are able to find their way out again.

The men did not take enough dive tanks with them to complete the dive. Normally, according to Detective Coleman, divers planning an extensive penetration dive such as this one take down "stage tanks" which are staged all along the dive route so they have new tanks when they run low on air. These divers had several stage tanks with them, but they were staged much higher in the vessel, and closer to the entrance, than their bodies were found. They only carried single tanks with them. Had they had a safety line, they may have been able to find their way back to the tanks.

Detective Coleman said when he interviewed Howard Spralter, the lone survivor of the group, he admitted they did not take all the safety precautions they should have to complete the dive.

"The divers who went in to recover the bodies said this portion of the ship has large amounts of silt built up inside," said Detective Coleman. "It doesn't take very much movement to kick that silt up and cause problems with your ability to see. Without a line to follow out, and with lots of silt in the water, it would have been virtually impossible for them to find their way out of the wreck," he said.

The Spiegel Grove is a popular dive spot off of Key Largo. The upper portions of the ship have many areas that have been prepared specifically for penetration dives with holes cut for ingress and egress, and markings on the walls showing clearly which ways to go. The portion of the ship these divers were in were lower down, where all the entrances were sealed to prevent entrance. It is unknown how the entrance they used was opened, but it was not intended for use as an entrance to the wreck.

The men's bodies have been transported to Key West and autopsies will be performed to determine the cause of their deaths. Assisting in the body recovery today was Key Largo Fire/Rescue, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission and the United States Coast Guard.

Hey Steve. Welcome to the board. I wish that it were under more pleasant circumstances. It has been at least 10 years since I have seen/dived with you. I hope all is going well for you. Thanks for the "horse's mouth info".
kh

 

[HowardE]

No one knows what happened to Steve. He had the gear, the training and the experience to do the dive he made when he died.

and maybe these guys did too (have the gear, training and experience)... Nobody who was there (inside) is alive to discuss what happened either; so probably we'll never know the truth. Could these guys have been overconfident too? Who is to say?? All we DO know is - if they had the gear... they didn't use it...

Here's the latest from the local paper - http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-cdivers18mar18,0,4219937.story

Now - a lot of people were wanting to discuss A&I topics, for lessons to be learned. This thread is all over the place with a whole lot, but very little in accident analysis.

What can we learn from this accident is already clear.

** If you're doing a wreck penetration; training is not enough... You must actually BRING the proper equipment required to make a safe penetration (wreck reel, enough gas)

They didn't use a safety line they could follow to exit the wreck.

They didn't take enough air tanks with them.

The tanks weren't properly distributed along their path in the wreck.

I think the legal debate over who could sue who should be held somewhere else as well. To those who want to learn lessons, and analyze the accident. Here you go. Learn your lesson.

He said the four were highly trained, safe and "technical" divers with advanced training. He also said the fourhad explored some of the most dangerous wrecks in U.S. waters, including the Spiegel Grove, a former Navy landing ship, several times.

This statement - quoted from the Sun Sentinel tends one to believe the "overconfident" theory. no??

There are facts to discuss... the discussion IMO should be how to mitigate problems on a wreck dive.

Remember - Dive Safely

 

[Buoyant1]

No, there ought not to be dive law.
Rick

Exactly! Everytime something BAD happens people jump in and start the "we need a law" crap!

Why do you think that we need to take off our shoes when we get on a plane? Why do you think baby seats in cars rival seats on the Space Shuttle? God help us if someone tried to take down a plane with a CD player or a book!

Diving does NOT need the "Scuba Police"! When you sign up for this, you also sign up for the risks involved! Everytime I get into the water, I know there's a risk, and I have to be smart enough to know what not to do, where not to go, and attempt to dive with people that I can rely upon in emergency situations, but bottom line...it's my butt on the line, and I have to make the smart decisions based upon my training.

If these poor guys had the proper training and something went horribly wrong, no matter how unfortunate it may be, it's their fault, if they didn't have the proper training, then it's still their fault!

Sorry for the rant....