$70 Nitrox Course - Three Hours

[Tigerman]

PADI doesn't require the dives anymore. I wish they didn't require them for Altitude either. It's all theory, no skills necessary underwater.

Anyway, I don't know that I necessarily agree that new divers should jump right into Nitrox. They need to get some experience in the shallower depths and work on improving their buoyancy before they think about going deeper. And Nitrox doesn't really have any benefits for most recreational dives above 60'. The ideal use of Nitrox comes in the 60'-110' range. True, new divers are diving those depths, but they really shouldn't be without some experience first. And what's the point of taking the course if you're not going to use the information for a year or so. BTW, I charge less for the Nitrox course I offer. The book and slates is a little more though, but I don't have control over those prices.

When it comes to "They need to get some experience in the shallower depths and work on improving their buoyancy before they think about going deeper" I cant help but wonder why youre of that opinion.. Improving bouyancy is easier at bigger depths in my experience. I found it much easier to control my bouyancy at shallower depths after doing a few 60+ feet dives. Why? I cant say for sure, but possibly because its easier when you have experienced being completely neutral, something that is easier to do deeper down? Not as big punishment at bigger depth when you fool around a little with your bouyancy as in shallow water.
I did 4 or 5 dives at 60+ feet playing around with my bouyancy and the next shallow dive (5-10 meters) I had MUCH better bouyancy control than before. The improvement after 5 shallow dives I had nowhere NEAR the same improvement.. Ok, the extra ammount of dives probably contributed as well, but the deeper, "easier to control" dives gave me the opportunity to fiddle around more without just keep going up and down all the time..

 

[Dive-aholic]

The first 20'/7 meters is the most difficult in terms of buoyancy control. Sure, practice buoyancy at 40'/13 meters where it's not so difficult, but I don't agree with going to 60' to practice buoyancy. When I started diving doubles, I did dozens of dives 20'/7 meters or shallower before taking it deeper. When I got my buoyancy down there, then I took it deeper. And this was all in fresh water, which is even more difficult than in sea water. You may have had an easier time at 60'/20 meters, but not everyone is the same. I teach and have taken students to greater than 60' and had major buoyancy issues at those depths. I've had to keep students from popping to the surface from those depths. Sure pressure changes are greater in the shallower depths, but popping to the surface from deeper depths is much more dangerous. I don't think any new diver has any business going to those deeper depths without a good instructor or without working their way to those depths in small steps.

 

[scubadobadoo]

Hubby made a mistake. Wifey would be better diver/buddy with the course.

SO the "Wifey" should take the course to prevent her husband from being an idiot? Now that is the best reason I have ever heard for taking a nitrox course, lol. Whine and Cheeze Don.

 

[Tigerman]

The first 20'/7 meters is the most difficult in terms of buoyancy control. Sure, practice buoyancy at 40'/13 meters where it's not so difficult, but I don't agree with going to 60' to practice buoyancy. When I started diving doubles, I did dozens of dives 20'/7 meters or shallower before taking it deeper. When I got my buoyancy down there, then I took it deeper. And this was all in fresh water, which is even more difficult than in sea water. You may have had an easier time at 60'/20 meters, but not everyone is the same. I teach and have taken students to greater than 60' and had major buoyancy issues at those depths. I've had to keep students from popping to the surface from those depths. Sure pressure changes are greater in the shallower depths, but popping to the surface from deeper depths is much more dangerous. I don't think any new diver has any business going to those deeper depths without a good instructor or without working their way to those depths in small steps.

I should have mentioned this to begin with, really..
The first 60'+ dives i made was infact with an instructor. No, it was not as part of my AOWD class, but it was with the same instructor as i did OWD and later AOWD training with. Also probably the same instructor I will do my Rescue training and a few other topics with..

 

[Dive-aholic]

That makes a big difference. And I should actually restate what I said. A good instructor isn't really necessary, but a good, experienced buddy is.

 

[KeyLargoBrent]

IME, most divers (especially novice divers) don't benefit from the extended bottom times potentially afforded by enriched air. Until one finds his or her dives to be more limited by bottom time remaining than by breathing gas remaining, the nature of the breathing gas isn't really an issue.

When your buddy thumbed the dive with five minutes to go, how much air did he have?

 

[Tom Winters]

Nitrox is good stuff. My dive shop charges the same price for nitrox whether it's air at 21% or 40%. 50%, 80% and 100% are more. They also charge by the cubic foot instead of by the tank. Another shop that I use occasionally charges by the tank size - I think I paid about $8/fill on a nitrox card for my LP 120's which usually hold 170-190 cubes after a righteous pump. Anything that helps reduce your exposure to nitrogen at depth is a plus.
I'm surprised more shops aren't folding it into the core instruction to boost their revenue streams a little.

 

[joe rock]

Maybe you are, but then - I don't really agree with the other reasons for Nitrox. 50% more NDL at 100 ft is a big reason for Nitrox to me. Feeling better after diving Nitrox is possible, but not a biggie. Increasing safety from DSC is negligible.

I never stated my reasons so I'm not sure how you can disagree. Extended bottom time and shorter surface intervales are certainly the major reasons I dive Nitrox. The only thing I said was diving DEEP wasn't a reason for ME to become Nitrox certified. Nitrox users benefit greatly from repetive dives between 60' and 100'. That's why I asked what YOU meant by DEEP.

As far as safety, it seems you advocate pushing the time/depth limits on every dive you make. I can see why safety from DCS is negligible from your perspective.

If your whole argument for Nitrox is that vacations divers who dive Nitrox have extended surface intervales and shorter dives on 100'+ dives because people on the same boat dive air... oh well.

IMO, not a good argument to tell everyone just certified they need to dive nitrox. Keep in mind this post appears on the New Divers & Those Considering Diving board. I think we're sending a bad message to new divers.

 

[DandyDon]

Nitrox & Bottom Time

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IME, most divers (especially novice divers) don't benefit from the extended bottom times potentially afforded by enriched air. Until one finds his or her dives to be more limited by bottom time remaining than by breathing gas remaining, the nature of the breathing gas isn't really an issue.

When your buddy thumbed the dive with five minutes to go, how much air did he have?

1500# - he was a lot better on that than me. Whether the newbie benefits from the course a lot or a little, it doesn't hurt anything, costs less than $100/3 hours, and helps out all the way around.

Do you require Aow cards to dive the Grove, or how new do you take divers there? I guess you have divers doing the Grove on air?

I never stated my reasons so I'm not sure how you can disagree. Extended bottom time and shorter surface intervales are certainly the major reasons I dive Nitrox. The only thing I said was diving DEEP wasn't a reason for ME to become Nitrox certified. Nitrox users benefit greatly from repetive dives between 60' and 100'. That's why I asked what YOU meant by DEEP.

Ok, good clarification. I thot you were referring to the treciary reasons. Good to say what you mean; I'm not good at guessing.

As far as safety, it seems you advocate pushing the time/depth limits on every dive you make. I can see why safety from DCS is negligible from your perspective.

Oh? You think that my wanting 5-8 more minutes when I have 13 showing on my computer is pushing limits.

If your whole argument for Nitrox is that vacations divers who dive Nitrox have extended surface intervales and shorter dives on 100'+ dives because people on the same boat dive air... oh well.

It was offered another view, an additional reason - in addition to the benefits they'll enjoy or grow into.

IMO, not a good argument to tell everyone just certified they need to dive nitrox. Keep in mind this post appears on the New Divers & Those Considering Diving board. I think we're sending a bad message to new divers.

Sure - I agree, discuss it here, correct my misstatements as needed.

But for the newbie to do the Nitrox course next will teach more table usage and understanding, more on general diving, prepare them for when they do get the opportunity to dive beneficially on Nitrox, and make them more welcome buddies to the more experienced.

 

[joe rock]

Sure - I agree, discuss it here, correct my misstatements as needed.

But for the newbie to do the Nitrox course next will teach more table usage and understanding, more on general diving, prepare them for when they do get the opportunity to dive beneficially on Nitrox, and make them more welcome buddies to the more experienced.

Don, I don't think it's about correcting anything. People can have honest disagreement. It makes the world go 'round. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I don't agree with you. There's a difference

Also, I agree Nitrox is a great course that is the begining steps to better understand tables, gases, gas management etc. No agrument there. My whole disagreement with your post was your original stated reasons why.

As for my comments about pushing the limits, you stated you were upset you had to quit a dive with 13 minutes of time left. Diving right to the NDL limits to me is pushing the limits. You also stated that you have gone into deco when that wasn't part of your dive plan. Again, to me (I'm a consersative old bast**d ) is pushing the limits. If I am wrong I apologize, I meant no harm.

JR