$70 Nitrox Course - Three Hours

[ReefHound]

I think the real point here is the boat arbitrarily pairing buddies who are on different mixes and thus potentially different profiles. I understand Don's concern, he has taken the time to learn Nitrox and paid extra for the gas only to not get to take advantage of it. I think the boat should not have paired him with an Air diver or at least offered some kind of compensation.

On the other hand, you dive enough trips and this is gonna happen now and then. When you get on the boat without a buddy you know you are going to be assigned one, and you don't know what you are going to get. Don, maybe you should just be glad you didn't get a buddy to freak out on the surface or "couldn't clear their ears" and had to abort the dive altogether.

BTW, I don't consider using max NDL as "pushing" the limits but rather "following" them.

 

[DandyDon]

I think the real point here is the boat arbitrarily pairing buddies who are on different mixes and thus potentially different profiles. I understand Don's concern, he has taken the time to learn Nitrox and paid extra for the gas only to not get to take advantage of it. I think the boat should not have paired him with an Air diver or at least offered some kind of compensation.

Oh the Op did all they could. I was impressed that they had a large boat with captain and a DM who dived it with us all going for the 3 divers booked. I was the fourth. I would have rather dived as a 3rd with the couple on Nitrox and stick the Air diver with the DM, but then the DM would have needed to leave us below to ascend with the air diver.

We have drifted away from my point: Newbies want to dive with more experienced, and many of us like diving with the newbies if it doesn't ruin the dive for us. If Nitrox courses are $98/3 hours, why can't we ask them to be prepared? No harm, gives them additional training, etc.

On the other hand, you dive enough trips and this is gonna happen now and then. When you get on the boat without a buddy you know you are going to be assigned one, and you don't know what you are going to get. Don, maybe you should just be glad you didn't get a buddy to freak out on the surface or "couldn't clear their ears" and had to abort the dive altogether.

BTW, I don't consider using max NDL as "pushing" the limits but rather "following" them.

Yep, that's certainly true. Other than this point, he was an very good diver - much better than I was at 50 dives. Nonetheless, if he wants to spend $80 for a trip, then the $98 for the course is not much to ask.

 

[ReefHound]

He might not have known about or had the opportunity for a $98 Nitrox course. These cheap nitrox courses are a relatively new thing. At least he had a dive computer.

 

[DandyDon]

He might not have known about or had the opportunity for a $98 Nitrox course. These cheap nitrox courses are a relatively new thing. At least he had a dive computer.

Indeed - that's why I started this thread and have been defending is so closely. If they don't know - they need to be explosed at least...

He was new, no one had told him probly, but they dive Nitrox in Ontario, I know - I have done it myself.

 

[sEANx32]

He might not have known about or had the opportunity for a $98 Nitrox course. These cheap nitrox courses are a relatively new thing.

They are new because PADI doesn't require the 2 dives anymore. This change happened in the last few months. You don't need to teach a class and then take divers out to do the dives, saving you on fill costs and time, etc. The PADI nitrox class should naturally be cheaper now that there has been this change in standards.

-Sean

 

[spschneer]

Hi all...Newby here with my view...

I agree that Don has something of a good point, but I think the deciding factor should be whether the Nitrox will make a difference to the buddy pair/group...

My experience level is such that I'm still sucking a tank down much quicker than the NDL time limit...even when I rent a HP 100 I'm close to the first one to turn pressure...This weekend was actually the first time ever, I was not the lowest pressure returning to the boat. I actually had about 1000# with a couple of the folks that had AL80's returned with 500-600#. I was using an HP100...

As I get better with my consumption, I'll definitely add Nitrox, AOW (probably in that order but maybe together since they no longer require dives for Nitrox)...and then Rescue...but right now, I really need to work on bouyancy, trim, control, navigation, and a few other OW skills before I'll be able to take real advantage of the benefits of Nitrox...

I really think it kinda makes no difference if I use Nitrox or not, when I'm turning a dive at 30 minutes due to hoovering an AL80 to 800# ...

JMHO...and thanks for a really good discussion of the relevant points...

Steve

 

[DandyDon]

Hi all...Newby here with my view...

I agree that Don has something of a good point, but I think the deciding factor should be whether the Nitrox will make a difference to the buddy pair/group...

My experience level is such that I'm still sucking a tank down much quicker than the NDL time limit...even when I rent a HP 100 I'm close to the first one to turn pressure...This weekend was actually the first time ever, I was not the lowest pressure returning to the boat. I actually had about 1000# with a couple of the folks that had AL80's returned with 500-600#. I was using an HP100...

As I get better with my consumption, I'll definitely add Nitrox, AOW (probably in that order but maybe together since they no longer require dives for Nitrox)...and then Rescue...but right now, I really need to work on bouyancy, trim, control, navigation, and a few other OW skills before I'll be able to take real advantage of the benefits of Nitrox...

I really think it kinda makes no difference if I use Nitrox or not, when I'm turning a dive at 30 minutes due to hoovering an AL80 to 800# ...

JMHO...and thanks for a really good discussion of the relevant points...

Steve

Thanks - I figured there would be resistance from newbies. Hope you get it before you ned it, rather than after.

 

[Tigerman]

Hi all...Newby here with my view...

I agree that Don has something of a good point, but I think the deciding factor should be whether the Nitrox will make a difference to the buddy pair/group...

My experience level is such that I'm still sucking a tank down much quicker than the NDL time limit...even when I rent a HP 100 I'm close to the first one to turn pressure...This weekend was actually the first time ever, I was not the lowest pressure returning to the boat. I actually had about 1000# with a couple of the folks that had AL80's returned with 500-600#. I was using an HP100...

As I get better with my consumption, I'll definitely add Nitrox, AOW (probably in that order but maybe together since they no longer require dives for Nitrox)...and then Rescue...but right now, I really need to work on bouyancy, trim, control, navigation, and a few other OW skills before I'll be able to take real advantage of the benefits of Nitrox...

I really think it kinda makes no difference if I use Nitrox or not, when I'm turning a dive at 30 minutes due to hoovering an AL80 to 800# ...

JMHO...and thanks for a really good discussion of the relevant points...

Steve

Navigation is a AOW topic you can choose
Other than that.. I have to agree.. If you suck the bottle dry before the NDL is reached anyways, it doesnt matter much if you use air or nitrox. However, if you look at your table, if you go deep (with padi that means beyond 60 feet) your NDL gets pretty short pretty fast. Yes, youll also use more air when going deep, but youll also have an easier time with things like bouyancy, which in turn can make you use less air..
As ive understood (im not a nitrox diver myself) the main benefits of nitrox is just those dives.. The 60-130 feet ones.

 

[spschneer]

Thanks - I figured there would be resistance from newbies. Hope you get it before you ned it, rather than after.

Not really resistance, but practicality...My (limited) funds that I've allocated for diving are better spent in diving (perfecting the skills I already have learned, but not perfected) than adding additional items to the task load (pre-dive primarily but possibly during the dive with re-calculating the bottom-time/profile adjustment/etc) by taking additional courses in additional technical areas...

Seriously, all I'm saying is that I will get Nitrox, but it doesn't make economic sense, at this moment, to do so...when I'm comfortable with my present inventory of skills and my performance of them, then I'll expand the envelope...not before...

One question I do have that hasn't been addressed...what about oxtox with the increased O2 level in Nitrox? Doesn't that make the planning of your max depth, and its relationship to the mixture's MOD, more, rather than less, critical? If you're unsure what your dive profile will be, doesn't the reduced O2 concentration in air provide a greater margin of error than a 32 or 36 mix? I realize this doesn't apply when dealing with a hard bottom profile (e.g.: max of say 90 feet to the sand) but say on the Grove or the Duane with bottom at 130 or so or a wall dive @ Grand Cayman (max depth 6000+)... Can't you exceed the MOD of 36 (and maybe 32)?

Thus, I think it behooves someone to be in control and able to manage their dive activities well, before putting themselves further at risk by an added technique or technology... But I haven't taken the course yet to know all the details so I'm going on what I've read (mainly on here on SB)...

Thanks for the interesting thread tho'

Steve

 

[spschneer]

Navigation is a AOW topic you can choose

You bet I will...also reading a bunch here (on SB) helps too...This thread
and the referenced articles are great for info..

Steve