A Cert Card for everything, including how to tie your shoe...

[Superlyte27]

I've been thinking recently about all the different certification cards to cover every conceivable subject in the world. And, I'm not sure if I was extremely lucky, or if things have really changed that much in the diving world. So, I'll ask this question. But first, for it to be fair (at least in my mind), I'd request that anyone who makes money by teaching what I perceive to be some mickey mouse certifications to remain silent or make us aware that you are an educator in the field that you are defending.

So, not that I'm picking on every card, but recently I was told there was a class for drysuits, a class for solo diving, a class for deep diving (to 130'). There's a certification for Equipment Specialist, Peak Performance Buoyancy, and a host of other courses equally as funny to me.

Now, as I stated above, maybe I was just really lucky, but Peak Performance Buoyancy? Perhaps instead of spending cash on that class, you should spend the money on diving. And wasn't that taught in OW or AOW. Deep Diver? I've read the course material for PADI and um.... Everything in that course is exactly what I was taught in AOW. Has AOW been watered down in the last 15 years? I have the book from 15 years ago, 130' was the recreational limit. Is it not now? Now you have to pay to learn to go to 130'? What could they possibly be teaching you that wasn't covered in AOW.

I've read about the course for Solo Diver, and I'll admit there is some good information there. But now there's a class for Deco? In fact recently a dive shop owner asked me if I had a certification that covered deco. I laughed, I thought he was joking. I thought this was covered in my IANTD EAN class. At least it was in 1996. That was one of the selling features in the class.

I get it that things change, and perhaps my personal perspective is skewed by the crazy diving career I've had. But I feel like PADI is really living up to it's acronym: Put Another Dollar In.

So please, chime in, there are alot of you I respect, young and old.

 

[Steve02]

I've been thinking recently about all the different certification cards to cover every conceivable subject in the world. And, I'm not sure if I was extremely lucky, or if things have really changed that much in the diving world. So, I'll ask this question. But first, for it to be fair (at least in my mind), I'd request that anyone who makes money by teaching what I perceive to be some mickey mouse certifications to remain silent or make us aware that you are an educator in the field that you are defending.

So, not that I'm picking on every card, but recently I was told there was a class for drysuits, a class for solo diving, a class for deep diving (to 130'). There's a certification for Equipment Specialist, Peak Performance Buoyancy, and a host of other courses equally as funny to me.

Now, as I stated above, maybe I was just really lucky, but Peak Performance Buoyancy? Perhaps instead of spending cash on that class, you should spend the money on diving. And wasn't that taught in OW or AOW. Deep Diver? I've read the course material for PADI and um.... Everything in that course is exactly what I was taught in AOW. Has AOW been watered down in the last 15 years? I have the book from 15 years ago, 130' was the recreational limit. Is it not now? Now you have to pay to learn to go to 130'? What could they possibly be teaching you that wasn't covered in AOW.

I've read about the course for Solo Diver, and I'll admit there is some good information there. But now there's a class for Deco? In fact recently a dive shop owner asked me if I had a certification that covered deco. I laughed, I thought he was joking. I thought this was covered in my IANTD EAN class. At least it was in 1996. That was one of the selling features in the class.

I get it that things change, and perhaps my personal perspective is skewed by the crazy diving career I've had. But I feel like PADI is really living up to it's acronym: Put Another Dollar In.

So please, chime in, there are alot of you I respect, young and old.

Not an educator, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!!

I am actually surprised that there isn't a specialty for diving doubles. With all of the other specialties out there, that would seem like a good one too. Learn different ways of setting them up, function/operation of the valves, handleing them (both in and out of the water), etc.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 for this thread.

 

[wrybosome]

There's a shoe tying specialty?

I'm calling the shop tomorrow. Goodbye sandals!!

 

[Superlyte27]

I could probably get on board with that. Buoyancy, gas management, depth considerations, Emercency Swimmng Ascent all change with a set of doubles on.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Hi Superlyte,

Welcome to America. We refer to this as the "free market" of goods and services. The idea being that people are free to offer goods or services for sale, and other people are free to buy them, or not. This system allows entrepreneurs to test the market for new products and new ideas, and is the foundation of capitalism.

You are welcome to enjoy the fruits of this American system, or to go to some other country and stand in line all day for a sack of moldy government potatoes. Your call.

 

[belairbrian]

Upfront: i am a DM candidate so I spend a lot of time with instructors and students.

Deep Diving: PADI OW "qualifies" you to 60ft. AOW 100 ft. (when i got my OW it was 130 ft) and as an OW I made dives at night below 100ft with and without instructors. The instructor was just diving not teaching.

I have heard it told to OW students that since they were trained to 60ft there could be insurance implications if they went deeper and were hurt. No idea if that is in anyway true.

As for Solo Diver, the local quarry will not allow solo diving without a Solo Card.

IMO other than having a C card for air, and a Nitrox card for Nitrox, what you do as a diver is up to your comfort level.

Of course if your using a diving business to dive: boat, quarry, spring for caves, etc they have the final say in what you must show.

 

[vjanelle]

Drysuits can be dangerous. If you don't have a mentor, you should at least have some education. Having a card for it just enables you to rent one at a shop you're not familiar with. That cert is at least in the realm of nitrox certification in level of usefulness, and really for the cost of having someone qualified spend time with you a pool and in the ocean helping you get adjusted it's worth the minimal cost(some places will even throw in the cert with the purchase of a dry suit).

PPB? I know a few people that came into AOW and just needed to be told how to fix what they're doing. Taking it past AOW is probably not worth it but some people like to collect cards.

Equipment specialist? Meh, no one I know in Vancouver teaches it... but I mean most people learn this stuff the hard way, and have people on the boat fix it for them. If you constantly have a stream of people asking you questions though, why not turn it into a revenue stream? If people want to spend the money, sometimes you need not discourage them.

AOW (at least for padi) certifies you to 100'. 130' just leads to more narcosis, shorter NDLs, and more gas planning issues... Which is what you get from the deep diver cert. All you're paying for is a guide to come down with you and make sure you're not being a total asshat. The narcosis at 100' is usually manageable.

Solo diver card is for liability issues, and only SDI issues one IIRC. You get one because you want to dive solo off of a charter, and they won't let you unless you have a card... This has been the issue with most of the charters I've dealt with.

For technical diving, it depends on the flavour of koolaid, but TDI Has A Course For Everything. This is probably what the guy was talking about. If it was covered in your IANTD class, then the answer is "yes". The recreational nitrox courses doesn't cover deco since you shouldn't be exceeding the recommended limits anyways(as you have not been taught what to do).

As for doubles courses, GUE/UTD offer "primer"/"mini" courses for doubles diving. I know stepping into UTD Tech that it'd be my weak spot, and the instructor has offered to tailor a course that focuses on the weaknesses in my propulsion & spent a couple of dives with me helping me with adjust to a twinset rig, since in his opinion I didn't need anything else from an Essentials of Tech. If my skills improve enough by the next class, I can get a UTD Tech 1 out of the way which will cover heliox, decompression diving and teach me how to handle pure O2 during a decompression stop.

The thing people don't realize when they chide on padi like this is that you can get a cert made for anything, as long as you have the paperwork/documentation needed. You need to be able to sell it to people however.

 

[vjanelle]

Next thing you know, people'll be complaining about the underwater basket weaving certification...

 

[mikemill]

I actually took a one day course on diving doubles.

One doesn't need most of the specialty certs. Instead the classes provide a formalized learning process.


Now to pick your examples apart:

class for drysuits

Lets see, another bubble to manage, need to know how to deal with a feet first ascent, runaway inflater, and care/maintenance are some topics that would be covered. Having someone go over those topics and do a few dives with you can be helpful to some.

a class for solo diving

The class in question is designed to teach you what you don't know. Self rescue, entanglements, gas planning, tank configuration (independent vs manifold doubles, side mount, etc), awareness, etc could all be topics that could be covered in greater depth than most classes.

a class for deep diving (to 130')

While OOA might have had a deep dive this class is suppose to go into even more detail about the risks and mitigation needed for diving at 130.

Equipment Specialist

Most people don't service their gear themselves nor really know how it works. So for the gear heads there is a class designed to go in those details.

Peak Performance Buoyancy

PPB is a contentious one. While most can just go diving and get their buoyancy to a good state a good PPB could (in theory at least) take one to the next level where their buoyancy is second nature.

But now there's a class for Deco? In fact recently a dive shop owner asked me if I had a certification that covered deco. I laughed, I thought he was joking. I thought this was covered in my IANTD EAN class. At least it was in 1996. That was one of the selling features in the class.

Seriously, you don't think people should take classes on deco? Considering how much data (scientific, pseudo-scientific, anecdotal, etc) there is about decompression theory and the dangers of getting it wrong I would say that deco is a good class to take.

I get it that things change, and perhaps my personal perspective is skewed by the crazy diving career I've had. But I feel like PADI is really living up to it's acronym: Put Another Dollar In.

So please, chime in, there are alot of you I respect, young and old.

I'm sorry to hear that you don't have respect for those that are trying to seek out formal education instead of doing it via a "crazy diving career".

 

[Steve02]

I would never complain about that cert. I've been taught to make beautiful baskets from kelp. In fact, I may go for the instructor course on that one.