A question about the devils eye/ear entrances

[TSandM]

Hmm . . . My cavern/Intro class was $700, IIRC. I then took Cave 1, which was 1300, I think, back then, and went over a lot of the same material. But I wanted to do it because I didn't feel I had mastered everything from my original class, and there were some things that weren't in it that I wanted to get. Then I took Cave 2, which cost me $2000 in tuition alone, plus tank rentals, fills, boat rentals, lodging, instructor lodging and fills, and car rental. The whole bill was somewhere around $4000 or so, and I didn't pass it, so I took Full Cave three months later, for another $800. That's almost $7000 in training alone, and I don't begrudge a dollar of it, because I think at the end of it all, I came out a pretty solid and safe cave diver.

No technical diving area is for people who are trying to get by spending the least amount of money possible. Instructor quality does vary, and if the person's prices are low, there may be a reason.

 

[j2s]

Outta' gene pool !!!!...Hopefully before you reproduce !!!!!

 

[JamesK]

Do not skimp and penny pinch on training. I glad you are considering training.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I didn't reneg. I'm waiting to see if you can show some common sense here. Me teaching you a class that will only give you more false security hasn't helped anyone. I've never had a student die after my training, and I'm really not wanting to start now. I'm questioning whether you'd be that first candidate.

To the OP: He's making an excellent point. One of the measures we used in selecting a full cave instructor is an instructor who has never had a student die in a cave. It speaks to what they teach, how they teach it, where their priorities are at, and also the attitude screening that is applied.

 

[ElGaucho]

I just can´t stand people that bitch about pricing for training. Of any kind. Yoga instructors charge more than a diving instructor if you consider the dangers, equipment needed, experience needed, and other costs. Go take up yoga or some other hobby. Jeez.

 

[Superlyte27]

I just can´t stand people that bitch about pricing for training. Of any kind. Yoga instructors charge more than a diving instructor if you consider the dangers, equipment needed, experience needed, and other costs. Go take up yoga or some other hobby. Jeez.

OMG!!! LOL, that is funny. I'm checking local yoga rates now. You are correct. When is the last time someone died from improper yoga training. Those classes are REALLY expensive. LOL.

 

[Akroedge540]

Just some food for thought for ya. I'm a licensed airplane/helicopter pilot with about 3600 hrs total time. I have my instrument rating, with tailwheel endorsements,high performance/complex and have experience up to advanced aerobatic level. I've turned a lot of people onto a world they never thought possible. I'm pretty proud of the things I've had the opportunity to do. I only got those opportunities from being kind, respectful, and asking lots of questions, and some much appreciated kindness of mentors in aviation. I'm a very new diver and just passed cavern/overhead sidemount. I wouldn't have been ready for the course if another cave instructor hadn't volunteered her time to mentor me. I am greatly appreciative of that. This cave diving community is one filled with all kinds of folks, but I assure you the majority are kind,helpful, and are in it for the fun of it, not the money. Was my cavern class expensive? Hell yea! Was all the gear I needed cheap? Not at all. Do I feel I got my money's worth? You bet, even if it was double what I payed. I'd much rather have my wife upset I spent a bunch of money, than have her bury me. My pain from drowning in a cave won't hurt nearly as long as the sight of me being pulled lifeless from the water will hurt her, or the friends,recovery divers,emt's,doctors,grave diggers etc. involved in my demise. The only living thing that benefits from your death are insects. Pay attention to what people are telling you swampy, drop the aggressiveness and ask for help. People WILL help you if you don't treat them like they are stupid. You've had a great many offers and I'll jump in for ya. You get setup with an instructor for a cavern course and demonstrate the right attitude for overhead diving and I'll give you a new set of up to date cavern books so you can get some good quality training and meet your personal diving goals. Cavern training is the first step in a great world of overhead diving, don't make the wrong one and end up a statistic.

 

[Ayisha]

I did NOT say I was going to break a rule at Ginnie springs outdoors. IF I GO TO GINNIE SPRINGS I WILL ABIDE BY THEIR RULES

Swampy made it clear a long time ago that he will not pay the Ginnie Springs Outdoors entrance fee and does not plan to get to/from the Ear/Eye from Ginnie Springs land thereby making a distinction in rules for Ginny Springs Outdoors and otherwise.

...Yet, I do want to do the loop from the ear to the eye (not the eye to the ear, because it would be swimming more against the flow..)

You have been told that laying the line in that passage is very tricky, yet you've said that you will lay one. You're saying above that you realize that swimming against the flow is not something you "want to do". So how do you plan to retrieve the line you lay? Leave it as a line trap for someone else? Leave it dangling at the Ear for someone else untrained to follow?

 

[Sleepdr]

Actually I think I want to take the cavern class after looking at whats his names website...

400 bucks seems awfully steep though.

Look, I'm just a very novice diver but have other potentially dangerous hobbies. If you're saying $400 is expensive, then that should be a red flag about the risk & skill level required. I'm no cave diver, and certainly don't have large amounts of disposable funds to sink into hobbies (wife, kids, medical bills, etc. suck it all up).

I just spent almost $300 between pool & private instructor for a GUE primer. That figure doesn't include gas, lodging, and meals. It was the best investment I've ever made in diving, and didn't lead to any specialized certificate or privilege. What it did teach me, among other things, was that the level of skill displayed by a highly experienced cave diver is impressive, and the procedures exist for a reason.

Similarly, I've spent lots of time and money rolling around in mud and terrible weather in shooting classes. The dangerous guys are the ones who don't want to take advanced classes because they are too expensive. They'll spend the same amount of money buying shiny accessories or traveling somewhere, but think actual training is a waste. They think my skill level is a fluke, rather than the result of countless repetitions. They also do things like one of my patients this morning, shooting themselves in the hand under stress. On a square range, it looks easy. In the dark with your heart pounding, you'd better have those safety fundamentals down cold.

Yes, you certainly can figure some things out on your own. For any skill set, it makes sense to capitalize on lessons learned by other people. If you're obstinate but lucky, you'll just end up progressing slowly while climbing a hill upon which others have died. Sometimes the learning curve is steep, and that first lesson is fatal.

 

[SWAMPY459]

You have been told that laying the line in that passage is very tricky, yet you've said that you will lay one. You're saying above that you realize that swimming against the flow is not something you "want to do". So how do you plan to retrieve the line you lay? Leave it as a line trap for someone else? Leave it dangling at the Ear for someone else untrained to follow?

What I was talking about doing can't be a very long distance ... Maybe go through the loop twice.. once to lay the line and once to pick it up? I'm not very good at guessing distances but looking at a map it can't be more than 50 yards?