A somewhat sad conversation last night

[Peter Guy]

Gotta butt in -- IF the "dude" NWGD has mentioned is who I think it is, no Bob, he is NOT a better diver than you are and he is not a better instructor nor does he have the integrity you have. If he is NOT the "dude" I think he is, well, "Nevermind."

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Gotta butt in -- IF the "dude" NWGD has mentioned is who I think it is, no Bob, he is NOT a better diver than you are and he is not a better instructor nor does he have the integrity you have. If he is NOT the "dude" I think he is, well, "Nevermind."

He's the dude you think it is ... and you know him way better than I do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hetland]

I thought it was incredibly sad that he had gotten such a bad impression of DIR people from this board.

He didn't get that impression from the board, he got it from people posting on the board. You can go to other forums and get the same negative impression of DIR folks. you can also get that in person from many folks claiming to be DIR divers.

And I wanted to offer his impression, now that he's MET us, so that other newer divers who have gotten the same impression might know that at least one person has concluded he was wrong.

Yes, please set us all straight. This guy was wrong, and now you've let us know about it.

I'm not trying to be an @$$, but it's easy to see from your post (and others), where people get a bad impression.

You are a DIR diver, you are a GUE diver. I'm not a TDI diver, or an IANTD diver, I'm just a diver. You are separating yourself from the dive community the minute you mention DIR, because one of the tenants is that DIR is all or nothing. You can't be a sidemount diver AND a DIR diver can you? I'm not allowed in the club if I like using split fins am I? I even have to breathe pre-approved gas mixtures? Computers aren't reliable?

Honestly, what do you expect?

I respect many of the DIR principals, and incorporate some of them into the way I dive, I also know a few DIR folks that are pleasant to be around. From the internet, you seem like a perfectly nice person that I would enjoy diving with, but scubaboard didn't beat up on DIR. DIR had it's wonderful reputation before scubaboard existed did it not?

 

[nimoh]

He didn't get that impression from the board, he got it from people posting on the board. You can go to other forums and get the same negative impression of DIR folks. you can also get that in person from many folks claiming to be DIR divers.



Yes, please set us all straight. This guy was wrong, and now you've let us know about it.

I'm not trying to be an @$$, but it's easy to see from your post (and others), where people get a bad impression.

You are a DIR diver, you are a GUE diver. I'm not a TDI diver, or an IANTD diver, I'm just a diver. You are separating yourself from the dive community the minute you mention DIR, because one of the tenants is that DIR is all or nothing. You can't be a sidemount diver AND a DIR diver can you? I'm not allowed in the club if I like using split fins am I? I even have to breathe pre-approved gas mixtures? Computers aren't reliable?

Honestly, what do you expect?

I respect many of the DIR principals, and incorporate some of them into the way I dive, I also know a few DIR folks that are pleasant to be around. From the internet, you seem like a perfectly nice person that I would enjoy diving with, but scubaboard didn't beat up on DIR. DIR had it's wonderful reputation before scubaboard existed did it not?

every diving organization has minimum standards and gear requirements.


You can't be a PADI OW diver unless you train with a snorkel and you are free to ditch the snorkel after certification.


The fact that GUE standards are more strict doesn't mean they are trying to separate themselves from the diving community. You are free to take a GUE class and then go back to split fins after that, if you prefer.

 

[scjoe]

A DIR thread with 274 posts and counting. Shocking! What’s next, gambling in Casa Blanca?

The OP, who most consider reasonable, states: “I will confess to being an elitist snob, though, as a result of my GUE training.” Other reasonable voices here acknowledge that Fundies grads can have an attitude problem for 30 days to a year. It would appear that GUE/UTD training either instills this attitude or tends to attract snobs. Maybe it is a bit of both. Looks like the attitude of the trainers needs some work.

 

[nimoh]

A DIR thread with 274 posts and counting. Shocking! What’s next, gambling in Casa Blanca?

The OP, who most consider reasonable, states: “I will confess to being an elitist snob, though, as a result of my GUE training.” Other reasonable voices here acknowledge that Fundies grads can have an attitude problem for 30 days to a year. It would appear that GUE/UTD training either instills this attitude or tends to attract snobs. Maybe it is a bit of both. Looks like the attitude of the trainers needs some work.

I don't think of myself as an elitist snob, I think there are a lot of great ways to dive and certain considerations for each system. I believe sidemount divers will tell you that you can't dive sidemount without a wing designed for sidemount.

I will watch out to see if I become an elitist snob later this year after I take GUE Fundamentals. Perhaps, I'll put my non-GUE dive buddies on notice to watch out for this as well

 

[danvolker]

He didn't get that impression from the board, he got it from people posting on the board. You can go to other forums and get the same negative impression of DIR folks. you can also get that in person from many folks claiming to be DIR divers.



Yes, please set us all straight. This guy was wrong, and now you've let us know about it.

I'm not trying to be an @$$, but it's easy to see from your post (and others), where people get a bad impression.

You are a DIR diver, you are a GUE diver. I'm not a TDI diver, or an IANTD diver, I'm just a diver. You are separating yourself from the dive community the minute you mention DIR, because one of the tenants is that DIR is all or nothing. You can't be a sidemount diver AND a DIR diver can you? I'm not allowed in the club if I like using split fins am I? I even have to breathe pre-approved gas mixtures? Computers aren't reliable?

Honestly, what do you expect?

I respect many of the DIR principals, and incorporate some of them into the way I dive, I also know a few DIR folks that are pleasant to be around. From the internet, you seem like a perfectly nice person that I would enjoy diving with, but scubaboard didn't beat up on DIR. DIR had it's wonderful reputation before scubaboard existed did it not?

The original DIR message was to recreational divers, to get them to try a few bit and pieces, and then more, and then more....and if it all keeps feeling better, then to go totally DIR...But there was no such limitation of all or nothing. There was if you wanted to dive the cave at Wakulla, or to do a shipwreck 285 feet deep with a bunch of WKPP guys....but for recreational, all the central players in creating the DIR ideas were fine with recreational divers just trying the long hose and necklace reg, and then in a few months or years, trying more DIR ideas.

The huge wars were never waged against THE RECREATIONAL DIVER....they were wars on the Cavers and Tech lists of Aquanaut, and they spilled over to rec.scuba because people enjoyed the WWF Wrestling nature of these wars...but the "combatants" even on rec.scuba, were at least at tech diver experience, to be involved in any kind of heated arguement. Strokes were not recreational divers...they were dangerous tech or cave guys with either instructor credentials, or just plenty of ego but always with what WKPP considered an unsafe mindset ( something that was not really relevant to recreational 100 foot or less dives.).
So much has been taken out of context.....Now the real sticking point, is the instructor or long time diver, that is pissed because "If they are not DIR, then someone is calling them someone who is diving wrong..... However, that is not the real implication.....DIR was about how not to die in deep caves....beyond that, the mindset and gear do not make representations to recreational divers that they are Doing it Wrong if not in DIR gear.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

A DIR thread with 274 posts and counting. Shocking! What’s next, gambling in Casa Blanca?

The OP, who most consider reasonable, states: “I will confess to being an elitist snob, though, as a result of my GUE training.” Other reasonable voices here acknowledge that Fundies grads can have an attitude problem for 30 days to a year. It would appear that GUE/UTD training either instills this attitude or tends to attract snobs. Maybe it is a bit of both. Looks like the attitude of the trainers needs some work.

Actually the GUE instructors I've met have been (with one exception) universally nice people ... there's nothing wrong with their attitude in the least. I think the "problem" lies with the student. It is ... if you will ... somewhat analogous to what happens when someone decides to quit smoking. They often go from being a smoker to being someone a smoker really doesn't want to be around.

Fundamentals can affect people in a lot of different ways ... we're all different. When I took it for the first time (and didn't pass) I went in with a lot of dives, an existing background of having quite a few of those dives with DIR-trained divers, and a notion that I was already a pretty damn good diver. And in a lot of ways I was. But I ran into ... for the first time ... a scuba class that I couldn't pass. It made a pretty big impression on me ... and in some respects I was a bit hard to live with for a few weeks ... not because I thought I was better than anybody else, but the opposite ... I felt like I'd been fooling myself all this time and I was embarrassed about it. For the first time, diving stopped being "fun" and became something more like an obsession ... something I had to prove to myself that I could do and do well. I took myself way too seriously ... for a few weeks ... then a realization set in that if I was going to succeed I needed to stop trying to prove something and just relax and remember why I was diving in the first place.

None of that response was the instructor's fault ... I did that to myself. I think a lot of people who take classes like this do. And it ain't just GUE classes either. I went through a similar process in some of my NAUI Tech classes ... and you probably wouldn't even want to read some of the things I posted during my cave training ... which was with NSS-CDS. In that class, my instructor ... who is a member of this board ... finally told me to quit posting and just focus on what it is I'm trying to learn. Perhaps GUE instructors should give similar advice to those going through their classes ... but it really is up to the student to decide ... and we all handle the stress of a rigorous class in different ways ... particularly if we don't live up to our own expectations.

I think that, really, is where a lot of the internet persona comes from ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[PfcAJ]

DIR: The group everyone loves to hate.

Also, its post 279. I think something about Hitler should be brought up right about now... Yanno, Godwin and whatnot.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

DIR: The group everyone loves to hate.

Also, its post 279. I think something about Hitler should be brought up right about now... Yanno, Godwin and whatnot.

... as you wish ...



... Bob (Grateful Diver)