Accountability in Accidents

[Sideband]

Originally this thread was part of a larger thread ostensibly about an accident in Peacock Springs. It has gone off in several directions, and this thread is one of them. Since it is a split, the posts may not flow smoothly; feel free to ask for clarification. Some posts are deleted - if you find one of yours missing from all four threads and you *really* feel it's important, and you don't want to try to reconstruct your thoughts - PM me and I'll see what I can do.
The four threads are
Peacock Springs Fatality - Accidents & Incidents
Peacock Springs - Cave Diving
Possible lessons from Peacock - Cave diving
Accountability in accidents - Basic Scuba Discussions

Rick

Sad to read about this........how many times does this happen whe a diver leaves without his buddy.

There was a thread about this not too long ago that was recently resurected. It has become a "LAW" for me that everyone that starts the dive with me, ends the dive with me. If there are three of us and we have plenty of air left then we will escort the third diver to the shore/boat and then the two of us will continue the dive. Nobody surfaces or returns alone. Period. There have been several times that a 3rd buddy wanted to head back for one reason or another and didn't want the escort. They got it anyway. I'm 100% sure they just didn't want to ruin the dive for us as well, but another peaceful 20 minutes on a dive is not worth getting out of the water and finding out they didn't make it back alive. I'm not sure how I would cope with the guilt if that happened.

Joe

 

[AmyJ]

I agree that in pure analysis names should be left out. The only problem I have is that there are instructors I know who at the very least contributed to one or more deaths and they're still teaching! They still own or run dive shops! they're going to get some one else! Personally I have no preoblem with a diver who just decides that he's good enough without training and does what he wants...then it's on him and him alone. However we go so far out of our way to market diving as safe and lull people into trusting instructors and agencies. Some of the dumbest things I've seen or heard of divers doing was done while following a DM or instructor. then some one dies and we hold hands to comfort every one and there's no accountability.
sorry to digress in to rec stuff. Just delete it if you want.

No to hijack here. but just to say... as a new diver (not cave diver) and someone who is very safety conscious and reads all the accident reports.... But I can tell you I sure as h_ll want to know which instructors are involved and have been factually found negligent (for any accident). I see many classes in my future and while I hold myself responsible FOR myself, there has to be a certain amount of trust in the instructor... general blame is one thing... but ACCOUNTABILITY is another and I think we owe it not only to ourselves, the diving community, but to those whose lives have been lost.... anyway, let you get back to analysis...

 

[GDI]

No to hijack here. but just to say... as a new diver (not cave diver) and someone who is very safety conscious and reads all the accident reports.... But I can tell you I sure as h_ll want to know which instructors are involved and have been factually found negligent (for any accident). I see many classes in my future and while I hold myself responsible FOR myself, there has to be a certain amount of trust in the instructor... general blame is one thing... but ACCOUNTABILITY is another and I think we owe it not only to ourselves, the diving community, but to those whose lives have been lost.... anyway, let you get back to analysis...

No AmyJ you are not hijacking the thread in fact this discussion is not just for cave divers but all divers. Accident Analysis can be used as a lessons learned in any diving appilication. Instructors are held accountable that is why we carry liability insurance. The training agencies both rec and tec have a system of instructor monitoring where a instructor can be removed from active teaching status. How well and how often this system is used is another question. The industry is self regulating (and should stay that way)