Advanced Recreational Cavern/Cave Diving?

[MauiScubaSteve]

For the past couple days I have wrestled with whether to post this or not. One reason for me wanting to post these pictures is due to posts of this nature;

like it or not a BP wing setup is a superior piece of kit

I do not intend to put words in people's mouths, but I have seen many posters here on SB who express condescending disbelief that their beloved BP/W might not be the optimal BC for every dive.

With regard to questions which have already been asked and answered, I suspect they all have been!

TS&M may be right, but I have not stumbled across any discussion of this nature here on SB. Unfortunately, the question(s) require at least paragraphs, and possibly more than one post to fully elucidate.

There have been many threads on SB that debate the relatively common scenario of OW/AOW vacation divers following local guides through overhead environs. Taking that subject a little farther, what about experienced local divers penetrating familiar but more advanced overhead environs?

Here in Hawaii waters there are many "lava tubes" that are way too much for the vast majority of divers, even more than solo diving is way too much for the vast majority of divers. Due to the highly controversial nature of Cave Diving, with colorful hiccup history involving the NAVY, Florida and even Oahu, such dangerous behavior is a taboo subject for the most part.

I have posted about one of my earliest post OW certification dives requiring my buddies and I to pass our gear through a restriction too tight for us to pass through with gear on, and I was not flamed for it. Being that this is it's own thread I am not so optimistic, but I am emboldened by recent posts like this one;

Personally i feel you should post everything, all the time, never stop

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Is it possible that a Vest BC is the best BC for a dive like this?

Please understand I am not advocating that any diver other than my BDB beanniebrew and myself do any dive similar to this one; YOU MOST CERTAINLY MIGHT DIE!

The entire dive, not all of it overhead, can be viewed at the following link;

Cave Dive - halemano's Photos- powered by SmugMug

​

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I realize that your specific question has to do with BC choice. I have no experience penetrating tight spaces like that (I'm purely a recreational OW diver), so I'll let someone else answer that particular gear question.

I am curious about something else. What will happen if the diver has an issue with his/her gas supply while in the restriction or further into the "cave"? Is there a redundant source of air (pony bottle) available? Is there a dive buddy that might be able to help? Does the dive buddy have a long enough hose to share air with the problem diver? As I said, I'm just curious. I'm completely ignorant as to how far back that cave/dark space extends. It's an overhead environment, though.

The snorkel mounted on a mask also looks like a questionable gear choice...given penetration of a tight space like that.

The lobster looks happy.

 

[TSandM]

I see so many serious issues with the equipment configuration and training of the diver in that photograph, that his choice of a BC is simply not an issue.

People do all kinds of things when diving. Please, anybody reading this thread, realize that what this diver is doing is exceedingly unwise.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

What will happen if the diver has an issue with his/her gas supply while in the restriction or further into the "cave"? Is there a redundant source of air (pony bottle) available? Is there a dive buddy that might be able to help? Does the dive buddy have a long enough hose to share air with the problem diver? As I said, I'm just curious. I'm completely ignorant as to how far back that cave/dark space extends. It's an overhead environment, though.

The snorkel mounted on a mask also looks like a questionable gear choice...given penetration of a tight space like that.

The lobster looks happy.

The lobster should look happy; we just flushed out the resident Javanese Moray that would like to eat it!

I only wear my snorkel on OW training dives and I would only wear split fins if there were no others; My BDB wears both on every dive and I keep my mouth shut!

This dive is similar to a +100' solo dive with no pony; beanniebrew is so relaxed in the water that it is highly likely we would survive in our typical warm water recreational configurations even if one of us had a catastrophic air disaster. We both understand that we could die when engaged in such risky behavior.

 

[Peter Guy]

Count me as one who doesn't understand this thread.

What does this have to do with BP/W and jacket BCs?

For that matter, what does this have to do with "recreational cavern/cave diving?" Cavern, maybe I can understand but cave?

OK, so you went into a lava tube that was "X" feet long (how long?). Neither you, nor your buddy, had any problems. And your point is?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

his choice of a BC is simply not an issue.

You did notice the color of the gear and the toenail polish, didn't you

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Count me as one who doesn't understand this thread.

What does this have to do with BP/W and jacket BCs?

For that matter, what does this have to do with "recreational cavern/cave diving?" Cavern, maybe I can understand but cave?

OK, so you went into a lava tube that was "X" feet long (how long?). Neither you, nor your buddy, had any problems. And your point is?

In my opinion there are tight squeezes where a wing would be more at risk of damage than a vest; the first two pic's posted above are of one of those tight squeezes.

As far as I have seen in print, the definition of a cave with regards to diving, would include this lava tube even though we are never deeper than 40' and never more than 130' from the surface. That said, this lava tube might be long enough that we are more than 130' from the surface in the middle of the tube.

 

[Cave Diver]

Can you do the dive with a jacket BC? Yeah.

Have I done something similar? Yeah.

Was it stupid? Yeah.

The biggest issue I see doing this type of diving with a jacket BC is that it's difficult to carry a redundant air source (doubles) or to sling a stage bottle.

Just on what I can see from the pics I'm much more concerned about this lack of redundant air sources, and an apparent lack of redundant light sources or the use of a guideline. Secondary to that would be the streamlining of the hoses/gauges so that you don't get hung up on something wiggling through what appears to be some apparently tight spots.

Also, I absolutely positively do NOT equate going into a hard overhead, especially with restrictions, to the same thing as diving to 100' without a pony or redundant air sources. They are two completely different animals and this one has the potential to bite you much harder.

If you (think) you understand all the dangers, you accept the risk yourself and it's not going to affect anyone else by causing access to the site to be lost, putting recovery divers in danger, etc., and you want to dive it, knock yourself out. I'm not going to tell you you shouldn't.

But as they say: Kids, don't try this at home!

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The biggest issue I see doing this type of diving with a jacket BC is that it's difficult to carry a redundant air source (doubles) or to sling a stage bottle.

I am of the opinion that it would be nearly impossible to get doubles or even a slung pony through some restrictions in some lava tubes.