Packhorse
Contributor
Tom Winters:
So I take it from that you are not really qualifyed to comment on them then.
Air2 thoughts please
- Thread starter ChrisEdwards
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So I take it from that you are not really qualifyed to comment on them then.
I think the Air 2 is terrific if you plan to keep your dive skill level and gear simple. It's always located at the same spot, and one less hose to worry about.
However if you plan to take your training beyond Advanced Open Water such as Rescue, Wreck, Cavern, or any other specialty that requires alot of air sharing drills, there's a good chance that you'll find that the Air 2 is a major PITA! Pretty much everyone I met that has gone through these courses get rid of their Alternate Regulator/Inflator and go back to the traditional octopus or 7' primary hose, and bungied secondary. With the AIR 2 There's hardly any room to move and it's difficult to look to the right due to the lenth of the corrogated hose. This isn't the case with everyone, but the only way you're going to know is if you find out yourself. Does your LDS rent out the Knight Hawk with the Air 2? If so, I'd try it out if I were you. :14:
Personally I dive with the 7' primary and bungies secondary around my neck. I like the fact that it gives me plenty of distance from my buddy.
However if you plan to take your training beyond Advanced Open Water such as Rescue, Wreck, Cavern, or any other specialty that requires alot of air sharing drills, there's a good chance that you'll find that the Air 2 is a major PITA! Pretty much everyone I met that has gone through these courses get rid of their Alternate Regulator/Inflator and go back to the traditional octopus or 7' primary hose, and bungied secondary. With the AIR 2 There's hardly any room to move and it's difficult to look to the right due to the lenth of the corrogated hose. This isn't the case with everyone, but the only way you're going to know is if you find out yourself. Does your LDS rent out the Knight Hawk with the Air 2? If so, I'd try it out if I were you. :14:
Personally I dive with the 7' primary and bungies secondary around my neck. I like the fact that it gives me plenty of distance from my buddy.
My take on Air2 and its ilk...
"Like one of those little donut spare tires, it's a good execution of a bad idea."
The compact size, streamlined, minimalistic approach is fantastic. Right up until the time you actually need to use it for it's intended purpose in a real-world situation.
Do they work? Sure.
Do people use them with no problems? For the most part.
Are they generally safe? Yup.
But for the people who love them them most, the best thing they have to say about them is "...and you'll probably never need to use it anyway."
Think about it: the main differentiating benefit of the product does NOT advance what the product is intended for. The product (an alternate 2nd satge) is intended to provide an alternate breathing source for you or buddy. The main differentiating benefit is "one less hose."
Q: "If you're buddy goes out of air, what's the first thing you want to do?"
A: "Uh, streamline my rig by elimating a hose?"
That's not the problem you're trying to solve. Almost by definition if you try to solve a DIFFERENT problem than the one you have, you're gonna shortchange the solution to the actual problem at hand. In fact, I could make the case from a thought-flow standpoint, the Air2 is more closely related to "get rid of your alternate altogether" as a solution. I think you'd agree that as a starting point, that's not a good idea.
"Like one of those little donut spare tires, it's a good execution of a bad idea."
The compact size, streamlined, minimalistic approach is fantastic. Right up until the time you actually need to use it for it's intended purpose in a real-world situation.
Do they work? Sure.
Do people use them with no problems? For the most part.
Are they generally safe? Yup.
But for the people who love them them most, the best thing they have to say about them is "...and you'll probably never need to use it anyway."
Think about it: the main differentiating benefit of the product does NOT advance what the product is intended for. The product (an alternate 2nd satge) is intended to provide an alternate breathing source for you or buddy. The main differentiating benefit is "one less hose."
Q: "If you're buddy goes out of air, what's the first thing you want to do?"
A: "Uh, streamline my rig by elimating a hose?"
That's not the problem you're trying to solve. Almost by definition if you try to solve a DIFFERENT problem than the one you have, you're gonna shortchange the solution to the actual problem at hand. In fact, I could make the case from a thought-flow standpoint, the Air2 is more closely related to "get rid of your alternate altogether" as a solution. I think you'd agree that as a starting point, that's not a good idea.
I'm a newb so take with a grain of salt not to mention its going to be kind of rambling just throwing out some random thoughts on the subject and not taking a hard stance one way or the other.
I'm torn on the whole thing. I have done all my diving with a traditional octo because I came to this site when I was brand new and was scared away from using the Air2 by people saying I would literally die if I used it. So my traditional octo is a POS because my LDS said it was ok for it to be since I will never use it outside of OW class. I would not want to breath on it in an emergency situation, nor would I want to give it to someone I are about in an emergency. And due to those factors, I didn't really pay much attention to where it was or even breathe on it on every dive.
This year I bought an Atomic SS1 (similar to SP Air2) and tried it out in the pool a bit. I really liked it. It breathed as easily as my primary, was always in sight, easy to use, etc. It changed my nonchalant view on my octo. Now knowing I might one day be using this, I always checked it, made sure it was clean and in working order. I always knew where it was and how to get to it quickly. I see this as an upside to octo inflators. It forces you to spend equal time and attention on each reg.
So all is good until I buddy with my GF in her OW class and we do OOA (out of air) drills. My primary has a Seacure (fitted) mouthpiece that fits my mouth only, I never really thought about the impact that would have. It was hard to determine when to give her my regulator and for her to drop hers. Once she had it, due to my fitted mouthpiece, it didn't fit in her mouth well. And due to my normal length primary hose, we couldn't turn enough to see each other. Add panic to that situation and we could likely drown. Immediately after that I sold my Atomic SS1 and went back to my POS octo.
But it doesn't really end there. I started to think about some different scenarios such DIR divers for example. They have their backup bungied under their chin always in reach, somewhat similar to an octo inflator in use. They always donate their primary to an OOA diver because it is a known good source of air and the OOA diver needs that more than you do at that point.
Another thought is a real OOA. It's not going to be like OW class. No calm hand across the throat signals. You might not even seen them coming and from what most experienced divers say, they will be coming for your primary regardless of you plans. If that's the case, then a long octo hose and short primary hose does you no good. So maybe a longer primary hose is worth consideration.
And again if that is the case, why do we learn/pratice OOA using the (PADI) method that we do? It seems like if the majority of OOA cases involve primary reg ripping, then we should configure our gear and practice in a manner that is realistic, i.e long primary, short backup, OOA rips reg from our mouth and we switch to bungied backup/octo inflator.
I guess the main points are:
Train OOA with your setup and your buddy
Train realistically and configure your gear accordingly
2 minutes trying it out in the pool is worth more than 300 hours of internet "expert" advice
I'm torn on the whole thing. I have done all my diving with a traditional octo because I came to this site when I was brand new and was scared away from using the Air2 by people saying I would literally die if I used it. So my traditional octo is a POS because my LDS said it was ok for it to be since I will never use it outside of OW class. I would not want to breath on it in an emergency situation, nor would I want to give it to someone I are about in an emergency. And due to those factors, I didn't really pay much attention to where it was or even breathe on it on every dive.
This year I bought an Atomic SS1 (similar to SP Air2) and tried it out in the pool a bit. I really liked it. It breathed as easily as my primary, was always in sight, easy to use, etc. It changed my nonchalant view on my octo. Now knowing I might one day be using this, I always checked it, made sure it was clean and in working order. I always knew where it was and how to get to it quickly. I see this as an upside to octo inflators. It forces you to spend equal time and attention on each reg.
So all is good until I buddy with my GF in her OW class and we do OOA (out of air) drills. My primary has a Seacure (fitted) mouthpiece that fits my mouth only, I never really thought about the impact that would have. It was hard to determine when to give her my regulator and for her to drop hers. Once she had it, due to my fitted mouthpiece, it didn't fit in her mouth well. And due to my normal length primary hose, we couldn't turn enough to see each other. Add panic to that situation and we could likely drown. Immediately after that I sold my Atomic SS1 and went back to my POS octo.
But it doesn't really end there. I started to think about some different scenarios such DIR divers for example. They have their backup bungied under their chin always in reach, somewhat similar to an octo inflator in use. They always donate their primary to an OOA diver because it is a known good source of air and the OOA diver needs that more than you do at that point.
Another thought is a real OOA. It's not going to be like OW class. No calm hand across the throat signals. You might not even seen them coming and from what most experienced divers say, they will be coming for your primary regardless of you plans. If that's the case, then a long octo hose and short primary hose does you no good. So maybe a longer primary hose is worth consideration.
And again if that is the case, why do we learn/pratice OOA using the (PADI) method that we do? It seems like if the majority of OOA cases involve primary reg ripping, then we should configure our gear and practice in a manner that is realistic, i.e long primary, short backup, OOA rips reg from our mouth and we switch to bungied backup/octo inflator.
I guess the main points are:
Train OOA with your setup and your buddy
Train realistically and configure your gear accordingly
2 minutes trying it out in the pool is worth more than 300 hours of internet "expert" advice
OP
ChrisEdwards
Guest
Thanks for all the replies. Shortly after I started the thread, I managed to find some more (long and heated) threads on this topic. I appologize for repeating this, but it was nice to see the majority of this thread's stayed calm and informative.
From these responses, plus the other threads, I see the pro's and cons of using this setup. One point that I totally had not thought about was travelling. With a family of 4, two of us being new divers with hopefully my youngest daugther joining us soon, I do not see us packing 3 or 4 BC's but definately wanting to take our regulator setup's with us when we travel by air.
So, therefore, I have made the decision to go with a standard Octo setup.
Again thanks for all you support, knowledge and wisdom.
This Scubaboard has been a Godsend in helping a novice like me come up to speed with all aspects of scuba diving.
From these responses, plus the other threads, I see the pro's and cons of using this setup. One point that I totally had not thought about was travelling. With a family of 4, two of us being new divers with hopefully my youngest daugther joining us soon, I do not see us packing 3 or 4 BC's but definately wanting to take our regulator setup's with us when we travel by air.
So, therefore, I have made the decision to go with a standard Octo setup.
Again thanks for all you support, knowledge and wisdom.
This Scubaboard has been a Godsend in helping a novice like me come up to speed with all aspects of scuba diving.
Whale Whisperer:
divindoc
Guest
For Sale: My AIR2 and SS1
Not for Sale: My second stage on 7' hose and bungeed backup.
KISS.
Not for Sale: My second stage on 7' hose and bungeed backup.
KISS.
Nevis Diver
Contributor
I use an Air2 because my LDS told me it was great when I bought it before I was certified and I liked the idea of less hoses. I have quality, albeit some would say overpriced, SP gear, serviced annually and I do not dive in extremely cold temperatures. Most of the time my dive buddies also have Air2 BC's and I practice switching from my primary to the Air2 on many of my local dives because one day someone may rip my primary out of my mouth and I want it to be instinct to go for my Air2.
I think it is a choice between convenience and streamlining vs. having the one event where someone actually needs your air quickly and without your knowing it. If you want to sacrifice a little streamlining for safety, get a long octo and forget the Air2.
I am assuming you are not yet certified so your LDS knows more than you do and probably beleives the Air2 is better for you. But, if you want the octo and he has a hissy fit about it, go somewhere else because even when you get 100+ dives, they will porobably have the same attitude for future purchases.
At some point I may change my BC (GlidePlus) to a simpler and lighter set up. When I do, I will gladly use an octo. Until that time I am very happy with my Air2.
Safety or streamlining...your choice.
I think it is a choice between convenience and streamlining vs. having the one event where someone actually needs your air quickly and without your knowing it. If you want to sacrifice a little streamlining for safety, get a long octo and forget the Air2.
I am assuming you are not yet certified so your LDS knows more than you do and probably beleives the Air2 is better for you. But, if you want the octo and he has a hissy fit about it, go somewhere else because even when you get 100+ dives, they will porobably have the same attitude for future purchases.
At some point I may change my BC (GlidePlus) to a simpler and lighter set up. When I do, I will gladly use an octo. Until that time I am very happy with my Air2.
Safety or streamlining...your choice.
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