Al 63s or 80s?

[asaara]

Most instructors and DMs I see don't dive with the standard Al 80s, usually going with the Al 63s or some variant of steel tanks, and often smaller people that have chosen to buy their own tanks pick the smaller size as well. So I was a bit surprised when going to buy new tanks for myself, having decided that yeah, I just might stick around and dive in my own country for a while, for a change, where tank rentals seem to cost far more than they should (well, everything does, here), that when I'm calling up dive shops to see if they've got purple Al 63s, that they're trying to talk me into buying the bigger tanks.

I'm female, good SAC relative to most non-instructors I've dived with, and of average size. Apparently, because I'm not exceptionally tiny or completely unable to manage a larger tank, I should be carrying extra air for my buddy. Despite the fact that plenty of people bigger than me dive the smaller tanks, apparently with complete disregard for the hoover insta-buddy they may end up with, according to the guy selling the tanks. Now, the dive shop manager in question claims he's not sure whether his supplier can even get the Al 63s in my preferred color (I did see them on Scubatoys once) - is this what's making him try and convince me to buy the larger tanks, or has there been some sort of shift in general recommendations these days and *everyone* is being always encouraged to buy the standard 80s if they're not going with steel? I'm aware they're not cheaper, and not *that* much lighter, but a even few less pounds and extra inches clearance would be nice.

 

[spectrum]

Hi asaara,

You are right to consider getting the right cylinder for your needs. Your needs do not include being an air Sherpa for your power breathing buddies. So here is my 2 cents....

Being in the great white north as you describe it and from the tidbits in your profile you are apparently a cold water diver. You have stated that even though you are able you would rather not lug more weight than YOU need. My word for you is steel. Check out this rant of mine.

Getting an AL63 will lighten the load some but HP steel let's you have your cake and eat it to for a few extra $$$. And if your dives become a little more demanding you may be happy to still have an 80 CF cylinder. A 63 foot version is available but uncommon. See the X series.

About that color..... IMO (and this is my opinion) the appeal of any colored tank is limited. Sooner or latter they get buggered up and look like beaters. Hot dipped galvanized is a timeless finish of beauty. Bead blast aluminum will age gracefully. Being a cold water diver I will guess that your visibility is like mine here in Maine, not what you find in the tropics. A clearly visible cylinder is a beautiful thing for your buddy to keep track of. Yellow and neon green do very well. The galvanized and naturals along with, dare I say it... pink are good alternatives.

As for the shop they may be trying to sell what is on the floor. Divers are more apt to go for the 80 because many never get their breathing under control or just as they do they want to go longer and deeper. Maybe they don't know that you understand your gas usage and God forbid are tying to make an informed decision.

You mention that you have a pretty good SAC so you probably know in cubic feet how much air you need to make the dives you enjoy. If you normal dive burns 40-50 cubic feet the a 63 may make sense.

Bottom line is that it sounds like you are spot on in wanting to get away from Aluminum 80s.

Pete

 

[scubapatton]

Spectrum - great post. I guess 5000+ posts and SB Staff helps huh?

I have had similar discussions with some of my students. Other than advocating Steel tanks, I am of the opinion that whatever makes THEM happy, makes ME happy. I do not let the shop tell my students what size tank to get. After watching my students in the pool and keeping tabs on their gauges, I commonly refer women, children and even some men into a 63 cylinder. The tank should not be like a missile riding their backs. I have a friend who only dives with 120 and I laugh everytime he comes back with ~1800psi. What a waste of schlepping. Then he complains about back pain...

If you feel comfortable with a 63 cylinder, go for it. I would earnestly look into the Steel cylinders though. I use a HP steel 80 for most of my diving, but I have a HP Steel 100 as well that I will often use for first dives of the day - partly cuz of the going deeper, but alos to make sure I am at ease for the day on my breathing rate, and to make sure my buddy/ies are all doing well on theirs. Sometimes I dive with relative newbies, and other times with more advanced than myself divers. I also am 6'2" though and having a 63 would not be best for me. I do use a 63 in pool sessions though and have never had an issue with running lower than those with 63s and 80s.

As for color, with the purple, you will find the color irrelevant after around 30'. On the surface, I ID my tanks with the big "Patton" written across the top in indelible marker.

If you feel comfortable, then either work with the shop or do some research and get yourself some 63s.

 

[Jimmer]

Where abouts in Canada are you located? The LDS that I am working on my DM with puts pretty much every woman in either an AL63 or a steel HP80 (roughly the same size). If you're local to us, we can rent you one of each to go try and dive and see what you think. But as others have said, and I can speak from personal experience, in Canada and cold water diving, the steel tanks are the ticket. Less weight on the belt, and more gas in a package that is roughly the same size.

Jim

 

[Docklobster]

Sounds like all your advice has been great so far. I dive the steel 80 (same size as the Al63) my wife has the AL63. Both are great tanks and I think a much better choice for my diving all the same reasons as mentioned above, I do like the durability of the galvanized or bead blasted AL, after a number of years some of my old tanks required having the paint removed in order to pass hydro, just something to think about for into the future...Stick to what you want it sounds like all great reasons...

 

[asaara]

Glad to know that I'm not such a horrible inconsiderate buddy-killing person as the shop guy seemed to be implying, and that "Thou shalt always dive Al 80s" has not joined the list of commandments with "Thou shalt always wear a snorkel" in this country! Thank you for that, now I can sleep at night.

The only things keeping me looking at aluminum over steel are corrosion (though it seems to be not such a huge problem over aluminum as I thought) and cost. 90% of that being cost. Well, also the fact that I've never seen steel tanks in purple. ;-)

I'm not sure how much diving I'm going to end up doing here, given that it'd take twice as many rentals to pay off steel tanks over aluminum ones, I suspect probably enough to make it worth buying aluminum...though if what I hear about people not filling aluminum tanks after 15 years is true...eh, I don't know. Suppose now that this has turned into yet another "steel vs. aluminum" thread I should go search for other threads of this nature.

Jim, I have no idea where Waterford is, but if it's between Toronto and Tobermory, want to rent me some tanks for the Labour Day weekend?

 

[Jimmer]

Corrosion isn't a huge issue with steel tanks that are maintained. If I were buying new, I'd buy Worthingtons, that are hot dip galvanized for exceptional corrosion protection. I currently use a set of double Faber's that are spray galvanized, and they are spotless, and 10 years old. I just set up another set of double steel 72's, galvanized, one of from 1967, and the other one is from 1960 (I think, the lettering is getting slightly hard to read), and they are both spotless too.

Well unfortunetly Waterford isn't between Toronto and Toby, we're about 25 minutes south of Brantford towards Lake Erie. But if you're ever interested in coming down to Erie to dive some shipwrecks, we can definetly arrange for an HP80, and an aluminum 63 to be ready for you on the boat. Just let me know.

Jim

 

[ScubaSarus]

Ide also consider a galvanized steel 72 2250 PSI. Some can be had for $50 are smallish and allow weight to be off the belt. Also the 72 CF Fabers 3000 + PSI can allow 10 lbs to be taken off the belt and are tiny.

 

[nereas]

Here are the general guidelines (sort of like the Codex Piratus in Pirates of the Caribbean):

Wetsuit + aluminum tanks

Drysuit + steel tanks

That should get you past your aluminum/steel question.

Regarding what size, that depends on how much air/nitrox you go through in a typical dive. Since you are female, I would presume that a 63 would be large enough for you. Carrying extra air for your buddy only makes sense in cave diving.

Buying tanks is mostly a matter of convenience for you, so that you can go diving anytime without having to hassle with a store. Like buying a car vs taking the bus everywhere.

Given all that, now you decide!

 

[ScubaSarus]

If you are in the colder climates and wear 7mm + Farmer/John you'll use almost as much weight as a drysuit diver would. Ide go with steels. But if how much weight you wear is not a problem, aluminums are fine.