Alec Pierce Scuba - Long Hose Good or Bad

[rongoodman]

From YouTube;
SORRY, EVERYONE! Alec said an error in the "Long Hose Safe Second" video. It has been removed and will be re-shot and released later. Thanks, everyone for your feedback.

That wasn't "an error", that was complete and utter cluelessness!

 

[JHumbert15]

That wasn't "an error", that was complete and utter cluelessness!

Beat me to it.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

At least he was thankful for our feedback.
Strangely enough, he usually answers a lot of the comments to his videos. He was very quiet today. Maybe he read them and considered the possibility that he should read up on the long hose a bit more.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Surely it's not as funny as the original...

And don't call me Surely

 

[chillyinCanada]

He was talking about the dude I quoted, not alec.

But to address your last point, the reg you're breathing is as good as it gets. And you're in a better position as the donor to deal with any issues that may arise with the other reg. The bungee necklace does a good job of protecting it. Better than the traditional octo setup in my experience.

"in your experience"?

How many times have you been mugged for your primary?

How many times have you been diving with a buddy that's lost his/her gas?

 

[StefinSB]

Dude. Please.

Alec was almost 100% spot on. Normal divers are who look at his usually very helpful channel (normal divers also look at the Lake Hickory Scuba channel, the other very helpful channel on YouTube; it's a shame there aren't more), and normal divers use a yellow octopus. He stated that using a standard configuration is safer than not doing so, which is usually true (and, in fact is the mantra of tec divers, who just use a different standard). Again, yellow octopus is the standard config. He's not aiming at tec divers, but at rec divers. Calling it "Tech Tips" means it's about the equipment normal divers use, as opposed to fish ID or some such thing, not that it's somehow about tec diving. He should have been more accurate in describing long hose use, but his ultimate point was solid. Do you see dive shops renting gear in other configurations? Not very often, because it would be begging for a very well deserved lawsuit when someone gets hurt.

By the way, calling him a doper, or incoherent, or other things, isn't a logical argument. Nor is saying things like that everyone has a yellow octopus only because that's what's sold--you can just put a period at "octopus," as the next phrase is just pointless. He's a bit goofy, but that's OK.

On another note, I thank the people who responded to my questions about the rationale for primary donate. However, most of those reasons had to do with mixed gases, knobs rolling on ceilings, twin tank configurations, and so forth. None of that has anything at all to do with normal divers. So, while tec gear configuration might be good for the very few, most of those rationales don't apply to rec diving. Just the "let's be nice and give people a clean reg" type of rationale applies.

Dude. Go out and look around. I just did a few dive in Kona and all those vacation guys renting stuff (from a padi shop FWIW) where In jackets with air-2’s, thus forcing primary donate. The primary’s also didn’t have a yellow color. Here is a nice demo I do when I get revise looks from the yellow octo crowd: I sit on the boat next to them and signal out of air. Then wait while they look around locating their yellow octo, they fiddling it loose, and then maybe hand it to me while I am still alive. On reverse I hand them my blue primary (thanks #buddha) within a second or two and put my silver necklaced backup in my mouth. Never, ever had a question after that while I am diving that way.

 

[helodriver87]

"in your experience"?

How many times have you been mugged for your primary?

How many times have you been diving with a buddy that's lost his/her gas?

Only once. And it went fine.

But I've used my backup plenty of times for various reasons, which is more what I was referencing, and it's always been in good shape and clean, thanks in some part to where it's stored.

 

[loosenit2]

Dude. Please.

Alec was almost 100% spot on. Normal divers are who look at his usually very helpful channel (normal divers also look at the Lake Hickory Scuba channel, the other very helpful channel on YouTube; it's a shame there aren't more), and normal divers use a yellow octopus. He stated that using a standard configuration is safer than not doing so, which is usually true (and, in fact is the mantra of tec divers, who just use a different standard). Again, yellow octopus is the standard config. He's not aiming at tec divers, but at rec divers. Calling it "Tech Tips" means it's about the equipment normal divers use, as opposed to fish ID or some such thing, not that it's somehow about tec diving. He should have been more accurate in describing long hose use, but his ultimate point was solid. Do you see dive shops renting gear in other configurations? Not very often, because it would be begging for a very well deserved lawsuit when someone gets hurt.

By the way, calling him a doper, or incoherent, or other things, isn't a logical argument. Nor is saying things like that everyone has a yellow octopus only because that's what's sold--you can just put a period at "octopus," as the next phrase is just pointless. He's a bit goofy, but that's OK.

On another note, I thank the people who responded to my questions about the rationale for primary donate. However, most of those reasons had to do with mixed gases, knobs rolling on ceilings, twin tank configurations, and so forth. None of that has anything at all to do with normal divers. So, while tec gear configuration might be good for the very few, most of those rationales don't apply to rec diving. Just the "let's be nice and give people a clean reg" type of rationale applies.

I think I saw in a later post that you acknowledge you misunderstood who I was referencing. Was not Alec, who made a bad video but had a point, but rather happy diver, whom I rarely understand and is far more artistic than logical.

 

[jgttrey]

Getting past the rancor for a moment....

Their have been a million threads debating the substance of the issue raised in the video - which are actually two issues (1) long hose and (2) primary donate. They don't necessarily go together. My recreational open water rig is a 40" hose routed under my right arm (which I would donate) and a secondary for me on necklace. And, as pointed out above, the whole AIR2 thing works the same way (btw, for me the worst of both worlds). But, that's not really the point of this thread. Yes, I know that in early posts I digressed as well, but now that it's gotten testy I'm trying to get back on topic, which was the video's errors.

The objectionable part of the video was not so much its conclusion. Personally, I disagree with it, but there are two sides to the argument and the "right" answer depends on you, your type of diving, your training, and your buddies.

What was objectionable was that it did not accurately portray how a long hose is used. Nobody watching that video would understand the pros and cons accurately or be in a position to make an informed decision for themselves. It would be like me redoing the video but telling you that the proper way to rig your octopus was to zip the second stage into BCD pocket.

Thankfully, it sounds like the message was received, which speaks very well of Mr. Pierce. How often is that you see that on SB? "Ooops, I guess I was wrong, let me pull that down or fess up."

I truly enjoy his videos and have learned a great deal. He has a ton to offer. He just dorked the dog on this one, as we all do from time to time.

 

[Bob DBF]

Actually, PADI did publish a training update a couple years back about donating the primary as an option in OW courses. SSI has been doing so forever.

If one has an Air 2, or one of the clones, there isn't much of a choice about what second one has to donate. And I'll bet the second in the divers mouth is not yellow.

That wasn't "an error", that was complete and utter cluelessness!

The error is not researching the material.


I have been mugged for my air twice, I thought I was solo diving both times and the came from above and behind me, so I was surprised. The first, I only had one second, as did everyone I knew at the time, everything went well and as we were trained. The second, I had an alternate clipped to my jacket, I grabbed the alternate and we ascended like we knew what we were doing. Other than a used inoperable second in a bin, I have not owned a yellow second.

When I started diving, I had one second so primary donate.
Later when I added an alternate second, I donated the alternate as was the custom.
I picked up an Air 2 clone, and went back to primary donate
I tried a number of long hose configurations, and changed to a 40" and bungeed backup, again primary donate.

Considering the number of Air 2 and it's clones that have been sold, I don't see why primary donate should be a new idea, or a supprise to anyone. And I rarely see a diver using one that has a yellow second.

What I learned from this is to tell anyone I buddy up with how to to get air from me in an emergency (a good idea in any event). If it's a stranger, and I don't see them in time to donate, I know from experience what reg they will grab. I don't get upset not having a reg in my mouth for a while, untill I get my alternate.



Bob