Almost left at a Reef

[StSomewhere]

When are dive operators going to realize that head counts do not work. I repeat, HEAD COUNTS DO NOT WORK. A roll call is the only sure method of making sure everyone is one board. Any dive operator not performing roll calls is negligent, IMHO.

I'm adding this to my list of interview questions I ask before I book a dive.

After all the industry caterwalling about the movie "Open Water", I can't believe anyone would still rely on headcounts but apparently they do.

 

[CA Diver]

I wouldn't be so quick to throw the operation under the bus. You admitted you were part of the mistake. You should have stayed with your buddy and exited the water.

I get the impression you used your pony to extend your dive. This is why some operations do not allow pony bottles.

Yes, the operation made a mistake, but it was preventable by proper actions on your part.

TwoBit

PONY was strictly for a redundant air supply. When I travel solo and must rely on being assigned a "buddy", or am planning on doing deep dives such as the Eagle or Spiegel Grove I bring the Pony tank along as a redundant air supply for safety. The only time I use it is on the last reef dive of the trip, which this was not, to empty it prior to flight. This is generally done under the boat prior to exiting the boat. This was done with another dive operation down the street that I trust the next day.

 

[CA Diver]

that your buddy probably should have said something.

I do not want to throw the buddy under the bus, as I did not know him very well or discuss it with him afterward, I had been talking with the couple that alerted the captain. I assume that after one person said something the other divers felt the situation was handled.

I also did not discuss it with the captain or crew but they knew I was pretty P@#### off about the situation.

someone asked how far the boat had moved. It appeared that the boat only moved far enough to begin to pull the anchor. They were notified pretty quickly by those still on board.

 

[CA Diver]

My understanding is that the diver surfaced at 59 minutes, AFTER the boat had moved.

Correct.

 

[simbrooks]

I also did not discuss it with the captain or crew but they knew I was pretty P@#### off about the situation.

Maybe this would have been a good idea? Get their apologies or an explanation of what they were doing at the time just in case they werent actually pulling away, just taking up some slack on the anchor line? I too in the past have worked myself up over something and thought that people were doing me a disservice, got pretty PO'd over it, but on talking with others or the other party involved things got sorted out, one way or the other and generally i felt things panned out ok. At the moment you havent had a chance to talk this out with them, have come away feeling frustrated and go on to bad mouth them on here - which we see a bunch about dive ops/LDS's/instructors etc in various forums on SB. Do you know why they did what they did? Are you sure it isnt a misunderstanding?

I had one op who threw out a float ball to get our attention after we hit 60 mins on the second/shallow reef dive down in the Keys, however there were 3 of us left drifting along at the time in only 20-30ft of water. We heard the engines crank up a few times, the boat moved, picked folks up before they signalled us that time was up.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Overstaying a briefed dive time (which you didn't do but I'll mention anyway) is an entirely separate issue from ensuring all divers are aboard before moving.
The first may be grounds for a complaint from the captain or even some restriction on a second dive, but is should have precisely ZERO to do with an accurate roll call before moving.
You haven't mentioned what your buddy said... did he have an opportunity to alert the crew before they started moving the boat (a roll call, for example), or was his (and the lady who spoke up) first hint when the captain started engines and pulled ahead? Sounds like it was the latter.
I do hope this captain got a 'cold shot of piss to the heart' when he realized he'd almost left someone, and has now lost his cavalier attitude towards roll calls.
Rick

 

[simbrooks]

Florida Keys Dive Center has been contacted and the owner and captain will reply to this thread tomorrow when they are back in the store and at the computer. I'll let FKDC tell their side of the story themselves.

 

[rab]

When are dive operators going to realize that head counts do not work. I repeat, HEAD COUNTS DO NOT WORK. A roll call is the only sure method of making sure everyone is one board. Any dive operator not performing roll calls is negligent, IMHO.

I've been on four different dive boats (3 in FL/Atlantic, 1 in IN/Lake Michigan) and so far not one has used the DAN Diver IDentification System (application PDF has a picture) (two took roll-call; one had myself and one other diver; one had myself and two divers). Has anyone been on a boat that used the system? I didn't find a listing of operators that employ the system on the DAN site, but perhaps we could start a thread on ScubaBoard to spread the word about dive ops that have it. (apologies if there is one that I should have searched for first)

-Rob

 

[Rick Murchison]

Blackbeards attempts to use a tag system similar to the system DAN uses. It's not very effective as divers just simply forget to use the tags.
Some ONE must be in charge of any system for it to work. We have found that the roll-call system, where we warn everyone every time not to answer for anyone else even if they "know" the other person is aboard is the only truly reliable system. "He's down below" or "he's in the bathroom" won't work - we track each individual down before giving the captain the "all aboard."
(The system as used on Blackbeard's does work, but it works because a crew member makes it work - essentially a roll-call system where the crew member in charge sees every diver before moving their tag aboard for them.)
Rick

 

[CaptGreg]

My name is Captain Greg Edkins and I am the captain being discussed in this message thread. I have worked as a dive boat captain for over 20 years (5 years at FKDC and 16 years at Lady Cyana). These are the actual events that unfolded on the boat while Tom (the 14th diver) was in the water.

Both myself and my mate were aware at all times that the 14th diver (Tom) was still in the water. After the 13th diver came on board, I spotted Tom's bubbles and watched them progress toward the boat. The bubbles then proceeded along the starboard side of the boat toward the bow. Because the diver did not ascend, I started the engines to get the diver's attention - a method I've found far more effective than ladder banging.

Yes, the ladders were pulled. This was done in error by my mate and I apologize for the misunderstanding this created. The trail line however was left in the water. If, in fact, we were going to move the boat, the line would have been pulled in as well. At no time did we have any intention of leaving the diver or moving the boat.

The boat was NEVER moved. The boat actually had swung on its anchor a short distance which probably gave Tom the appearance that we had moved it. Boats swinging on anchors is quite common due to changing currents and wind.

Regarding the length of time Tom had been down. Yes, I had given an hour's limit to the time of the dive which is standard procedure on this type of dive. However, time is irrelevant when it is discovered that a diver is by himself. It was clearly stated in the briefing that dive buddies remain together at all times. It is for this reason that Tom was being strongly urged to return to the boat.

Regarding roll call. I am an unusual captain (and I've been criticized for this) but I actually memorize the manifest when we do roll call at the dock. Not only do I know how many are on board but I have memorized their names and faces. Therefore, I know who is on and who is still out. I have been warned that some divers will not understand this and think I'm being careless; however, in over 20 years, I have never left a diver on the reef.

Lastly, yes, two people did comment to me when I started the engines that we still had a diver out. I acknowledged that I was aware of this and we were attempting to get his attention. When Tom did finally surface, he was assisted back onto the boat and at no time gave any indication to myself or other crew members that there was a problem. Nor was anything said back at the shop upon our return. This message thread is the first we have heard of any problem.

As a diving professional, I believe that if any diver at any time feels a boat crew is negligent in any way, they should let the crew know immediately so the matter may be addressed. Sometimes divers are correct and sometimes assumptions are made that simply are not appropriate.

Sincerely,
Captain Greg Edkins