Aluminum 80s versus larger steel tanks

[Christi]

Mike,

Go ahead and continue to take my comments out of context. I have never ONCE diminished the quality of Aldora and their operation - in fact I recommend them and refer people to them - so go ahead and pretend there are "issues" between Dave and Memo and I and pit us against each other - because that would make us all laugh actually. I am not "justifying" my use of AL 80's - I have never considered going to steel tanks and I won't. My business model works the way it is and I have many loyal and happy new and old customers. Some people prefer the steel tanks for various reasons, and that's fine - as I said - it's a personal preference - why do you have such a problem with that statement?

For SOME the larger tanks are a benefit - to others they are not necessary because another thing, not everyone needs or wants dives longer than an hour - some people are cold, or bored and ready to come up after an hour...as I said - it's a personal preference - but steel or aluminum tanks do not make or break a shop IMO. You're of course entitled to yours.

Thank you Dave for that - maybe when I am fully recovered from my surgery I can hit the water with you - that would be fun actually I dive a Halcyon BP and wing AND have some fancy new webbing (thanks lhutchins) so when I am back in the water, a perfect time to make the necessary adjustments to my ger .

For those who have asked, here are some of our recent profiles - consider that these are all multi-level profiles:
4/22 - Columbia - 120ft/70min; Cedral Wall 70ft/75min
4/24 - Santa Rosa Wall - 120ft/72min; Tunich - 70ft/75min
4/25 - Cedral Wall - 100ft/65min; Tormentos 60ft; 70min
4/26 - Palancar Bricks 100ft/75min; Dalila 60ft/72min
4/30 - Palacar horseshoe 100ft/70min - Tunich70ft/79min
5/4 - Palancar Bricks 100ft/62min - Francesa 70ft/65min
5/6 - Palancar Gardens 80ft/63min; San Francisco 60ft/65min; Yucab 55ft/62min
5/7 - Palancar caves 90ft/58min; Dalila 60ft/65 min; Chankanaab Bolones 50ft/65 min

Just a recent sampling.

 

[cvchief]

... I routinely see 220lb+ average to overweight for their height men get 60+ minutes form their AL 80 and likewise, ... It has more to do with comfort and skill of the diver, being properly weighted, and general cardiovascular shape.

So, either I am in awesome cardio shape or I have reached enlightenment? I think I will have to go with choice B. Its must be the underwater zen thing.....

---------- Post added May 8th, 2014 at 02:47 PM ----------

And as a business model, 80s might make more sense. 120s on average would require 50% more time on the dives right? That's 50% more fuel and personnel costs. Maybe it is not as simple as Mike suggests.

Of course, as the market is always right, there is a market for BOTH 120s and 80s for whatever reasons as ops are successful in both models.

More ops going to 120s would probably hurt Aldora first, might even help cheaper 80s second until such time as 120 became the accepted 'norm.'

That being said, I would like to dive a 120 steel with Aldora once just to see how those 120s are and how the other half lives....

 

[Mike]

The other side of the coin is that there are many successful dive operators using the AL80 model, so why is one the model for success and the other not?

Difference is the framing of the term -"one of the most' versus 'many'. "One of the most" is clearly a significantly more discriminating and defining term than "many" in the ladder rungs of the market place.

---------- Post added May 8th, 2014 at 02:46 PM ----------

Mike,

Go ahead and continue to take my comments out of context.

I didn't know I had a history of doing this in the past

 

[Christi]

Difference is the framing of the term -"one of the most' versus 'many'. "One of the most" is clearly a significantly more discriminating and defining term than "many" in the ladder rungs of the market place.

---------- Post added May 8th, 2014 at 02:46 PM ----------



I didn't know I had a history of doing this in the past

No, but you're doing it in this thread

 

[Mike]

Well, you certainly don't need to defend your business in any facet as your reputation stands for itself. :yelclap:

My comments are as you know in regard to the notion that it's queer to say the least to present more air on dives to be anything but a benefit.

To each their own, and to each their own ability to decide whether more air is worth it or not.

I think no matter how much anybody wants to keep coming up with bizarre undefendable evidence of more air being a detriment to diving, the real crux of the question and why there is even a discussion "why better sucks" is revealed by this comment

Then there is the matter of cost, at least for me. One of the reasons I go to Coz is because it's relatively cheap. I really don't want to be pushing into $100 per 2-tank trip.

Let's just come right out and define it, bigger tanks raise the cost of diving and for some they aren't going to part with the coin. Good is good enough for them and for others better is what's good enough.

But I want the persecution of the better is what's good enough crowd to stop! :joke:

 

[Dave Dillehay]

Dear Christi,

I am back in Texas with my Freshmen twins (boy girl divers) finishing up the school year. And as soon as we can, let's do a trip…my treat. You tighten up my BC and I'll help with yours…OK?


Dave

 

[Christi]

Dear Christi,

I am back in Texas with my Freshmen twins (boy girl divers) finishing up the school year. And as soon as we can, let's do a trip…my treat. You tighten up my BC and I'll help with yours…OK?


Dave

That's a deal Dave! I am hoping to be ok to dive in 3 - 4 weeks!!!

 

[ReefHound]

Difference is the framing of the term -"one of the most' versus 'many'. "One of the most" is clearly a significantly more discriminating and defining term than "many" in the ladder rungs of the market place.

Ok, if you want to play semantics then "one of the most" implies there is at least one "other" of the most and perhaps more. And even if your big tank op was "the most" the fact that there are many more successful ops using 80's shows that it is a successful business model. The point here is that the ops using bigger tanks are not running circles around or putting out of business the ops using standard 80's so there is no basis to declare the former are a model for the latter to copy.

Not to mention that, while bigger tanks are a selling point, there is no reason to believe that Aldora wouldn't be successful using only 80's. My bet is that they would still be "one of the most" successful using 80's based on their ownership, personnel, resources, and level of service in all other areas.

 

[Mike]

Can't argue with that.

So what was the point?

 

[cvchief]

My comments are as you know in regard to the notion that it's queer to say the least to present more air on dives to be anything but a benefit.

So all the people who don't like steel tanks are all wrong? Am I getting this right? I mean I don't know personally, but I want to be able explain this correctly. Anyone who doesn't like a steel tank based on its weighting characteristics or whatever is simply out of their mind? You are saying the ONLY difference is the price and more air?

I would try one, because having to drop some lead will still leave me with alot of lead, so I imagine the weighting isn't an issue for me. I just want to make sure I understand so when I see the next person that doesn't like steel tanks, I can tell them they are wrong....