ankle weights

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The reason for a tuck and roll in a feet up ascent is that you need to get righted in order to be able to dump. When performing this you do kick down as part of the move. One of the things that can cause one to get in such a situation is a stuck inflator. If you have lots of extra air in the suit just swimmind down isn't going to get you far. Better practice it the way the book says just in case. I have students do this with me holding their inflat button to simulate a stuck inflator.

A couple of (what should be, IMHO, obvious) points:

1. If the inflator is stuck, I will know this. It is OBVIOUS when air is going into the suit - you can feel it in your chest. Further, my inflator is VERY slow (good!); if it had been a "fast" inflator I would have immediately swapped it out, as I believe that "fast" inflators (whether on BCs and now on drysuits) are dangerous.

2. If the inflator is stuck open the immediate and obvious response, assuming that bumping the button doesn't close the valve, is to disconnect the hose. You can always recover it later if you decide to once things are under control. My suit has a VERY easy to grasp disconnect (its shaped like a "wing" on the collar), even in heavy mitts or gloves.

3. The first priority MUST BE to arrest a potentially-run-away ascent. That would mean stopping the inflow of air immediately and then stopping the ascent if possible. The reason that I believe this is the correct order of business is that a runaway ascent caused by expanding air is an EXPONENTIAL process. With a virtually unlimited volume available in the dry suit (compared to, say, a BC) you could have a MAJOR problem if you really got cooking. Therefore, the first priority, IMHO, should be to prevent any further expansion of the airspace in the suit, which means stopping upward motion and any inflow of additional gas. The SECOND priority is to get rid of the extra air. If you realize that you are unexpectedly ascending and inverted your FIRST move should be to stop that IF YOU CAN. You WILL NOT have a lot of extra air in the suit at that moment in time unless you are using it as a BC, in which case your first mistake was made much earlier on! Second, provided that you catch it early, you CAN fin down against it and as soon as you do the air compresses and the extra buoyancy dissipates. I practiced this both in my pool and today (at 15' after my safety stop had expired, plus a few minutes more) and it would take an amazing lack of attention on my part for the situation to deteriorate beyond where I could fin down enough to regain control that way. If I can handle it in shallow water where the pressure gradient is the greatest it would only be easier in deeper water.

You CAN fin down against 10lbs or so of positive buoyancy - at least for a short while. The trick is to catch the problem before 5-10lbs of extra buoyancy becomes 40 or 50lbs!

This is why I have a problem with the "suit as BC" philosophy. Its stupid and dangerous to teach people to dive that way. You just made my point for me. If you're not a balloon in the water in the first place, you feel IMMEDIATELY any change in the suit's contour on your body as a consequence of a gas addition. This gives you PLENTY of warning to avoid the uncontrolled ascent in the first place!

I have, indeed, practiced the "by the book" tuck-and-roll maneuver. My problem with that as a first response to a feet-first runaway ascent is that you shouldn't be in that situation and in fact you can't get in that box unless you've already done a whole bunch of things wrong, and possibly more importantly, you are both allowing the exponential nature of a runaway ascent to have more time to build AND pointing your propulsion source in the wrong direction!

Yes, you must get your head (ok, technically any seal in an emergency) up to dump. Yep. But if you're a rocketship already you've done so many things wrong that you may not be able to stop the ascent before you surface anyway.

Finally, if you only put enough air in the suit to prevent the squeeze from getting to you as you decend, and the dump is open, then the air in your BC is limited to the buoyancy shift of your tank(s) (assuming you are properly weighted, of course) since the buoyancy of the suit is a CONSTANT. As you decend you add air. As you ascend it vents off. There is, as a consequence, never a buoyancy shift of significance (more than a couple of pounds) beyond that of the air in your tank as it is consumed. This wound up being REALLY nice once I got the feel for it - it was actually easier to control my ascents than it is with the neoprene that I usually dive with.

What did you mean by?
"3. None of the local places, save one, thought that they should offer this class with their own gear; rather, they thought you should either rent gear from them or buy it first then take the class from them."

You either rent or buy. What other choice is ther? Are you saying you should use theirs for free?

I'm saying that if you're going to buy gear from them (or elsewhere) to take the course then this ought not to be a "one size fits all" type of thing, particularly since dry suits are NOT a "one size fits all" deal!

In fact, the amazing part of this entire experience for me was that the local shops neither carried any kind of collection of suits nor were they really interested in the matter. Yeah, they'd order you something, but let's be real here - with places like DUI shoving even THEIR mistakes in sizing down the customer's throat (rather than THEM eating it) this can get awfully expensive and very uncomfortable in the end.

When students come in and take OW classes the course typically includes gear - except for mask, snorkel and fins. Why not here?

THE biggest value in a class, for me, would have been an evaluation of the different suits and styles available and a chance to try the different materials and technologies on in a pool BEFORE buying one. You can't get there from here with either renting or buying first. THAT would have been worth a (fairly significant) price of a class - at least for me. Spending some money to insure that I don't waste a lot of it is a good deal from my point of view. As it was I couldn't get that, so I punted, figuring that if I didn't particularly care for the (relatively inexpensive) choice I made I wouldn't get hurt TOO bad.

I selected the BARE Nex-Gen suit and like it a lot. It dives a whole lot nicer than what I thought it would, given that its marketed as an "entry level" drysuit. Some of that may be due to my using it with a BP+Wing, since it doesn't have suspenders but with the crotch strap that becomes a non-issue, as the fit was very nicely controlled by my plate's harness in that area. Of course I don't have anything (wet) to compare it to; only "dry trials" of a couple of others - but I didn't find anything to complain about in my two dives today. That's not bad!

Maybe next year when the DUI folks do their "at the spring" demo thing I'll go there and try some of their suits on. I might even decide I like one of them. But I'll be darned if I'm going to do this roulette style - buy a suit, eBAY it if I don't like it or if it doesn't fit right, etc.
 
ankel weights give me cramp so i dont wear them
bonus is ive just bought a northen diver cortex membrain dry suit and the boots have a hard sole but very rubery neoprene ankel section that squeezes to your ankels designed to keep the boots from sliping off it also reduces the amount of air you get in your boots helping to eliminate the "floaty feet syndrome" you can get these boots put on any suit just ask northen diver.
other suits might have this idea but not that i know of.
 
Genesis,
The solution to floaty feet you describe sounds ok to me. If the inflator is stuck you need to stop the ascent, disconnect the hose and vent all in one fluid motion (as close as possible).

You may not always hear or feel the air comming in. If wearing a hood and heavy underwear sometimes I don't feel or hear it (at least not very well). Since it takes some time for additional air to have an effect you can get cought behind and end up very buoyant before you realize there is a problem. And yes this is why a slow inflator is good.

You have a point about rental suits. The issue for most shops it the number of suits you need to have on hand and the demand. In our case so far we can only afford one line of suits (to sell). No matter what size suit I would buy for rental someone would need another size. And they would be all the same kind of suit. To be able to have more than one brand of suit to fit almost anyone who came in would require many suits and a huge amount of money. The demand isn't there. Most shops build their dry suit rental pool slowly over time. I could get more divers interested in a dry suit if I had more rental suits (maybe). However the only divers who do a drysuit class are divers who have or are planning to buy a suit. In general only serious divers get a dry suit and there aren't enough of them.
 
I use and recommend them.
They help reduce leg buoyancy, and they also redistribute your weight, allowing you to move the same amount of weight from your belt.

A stainless steel backplate and steel tanks can help here as well.

This is less of concern with a shell suit, but helpfull if you're going to a neoprene suit, which can require 10 - 15 lbs ( 4 - 6 kg) more ballast than a shell suit.

Mike D
:blfish:
 
trewbs
Bob3 has a good point. Play with your trim, Move the tank lower, or try a tank weight! Ankle weights may fatigue you, and permote cramping if you have to fin hard for a protracted period of time. I was always a fan of having a snug weight belt. After looking at Bobs picture, well, lets say he appears to have been around the block. Personally I feel they, ankle weights, are unnecessary if you've done your homework with respect to trim. Negative fins are a choice as well, however, when your on the ladder removing your fins and one falls. You get the idea.......I have a little pouch on the bands of my BCs, I put a 8 lb. weight in it. That makes me upright in the water on the surface with a rear bladder BC, and keeps my feet in line with my body while diving. In addition to the weights in my Rangers pockets, I can roll, or hold position easily. My Tec stuff, back plate and such is different yet, but that's another story. Let me know how you make out!
 
mddolson
I see from your picture you use a mask light. I never dive with out one.
Wreck/Tec
 
Few divers are taught dry suit solutions most come to it instinctively. To be really comfortable balance your trim carefully so you float and swim in a horizontal position. Use leverage by fastening the stab jacket higher on the cylinder. When you swim feet up instead of horizontal, air will obviously concentrate in the feet. Next time you feel air in the feet unbalancing you, try bringing heels back as if for a frog kick and arching your back, like a sky diver in free fall position. When your head is higher than your tail you can then bring your legs down below your trunk and the air is then concentrated back in your shoulders.
 
When you've moved your steel tank(s) as low as you can, or have added weight to the bottom of your aluminum tank(s) until you are negatively buoyant but still need some foot down moment to achieve trim, ankle weights provide that moment with the minimum added weight required. That's when they make sense. But if you haven't already done everything you can to get trimmed without them, try other things first.
Rick
 
After listening to all you guys and talking to a few instructors at my dive school, I've decided to try and persevere without ankle weights by just playing around with my trim. If this really doesn't work for me, then I'm going to get a pair.

Cheers for all the advice,

Trewbs
 

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