AOW training and depth on first dive

[Rooster1]

I know an instructor that takes his AOW students when he is training them to 120 fsw on there dive. This is done in a Quarry and the water temp at the bottom I have been told is really cold...that you can only stand it for 10 mins. I asked him about the students getting Narcosis and he said he hopes so. He believes that he would rather teach them in those conditions and them feeling Narcosis so that if it happens to them when they are diving they will know what it is and how to deal with it.

I found this a little scary and am not sure this is standard practice.
Some AOW students would be doing twice as much depth of what they have previously done in cold cold water and possibly narced. Would appreciate some feedback on this.

 

[The Chairman]

for AOW... it is not prudent to stress students that far beyond their previous training. I would rather save sub 100 fsw training for the deep diving specialty and also for Master Diver. At that level they should experience the effects of narcosis first hand in an extremely controlled environment. Even at that, adding cold to this equation borders on extreme.

 

[Rick Murchison]

It depends on which AOW course you're doing. If it includes "deep diving" then an excursion below 100' to demonstrate the effects of narcosis is desired - or, in my case, required to complete the course.
Rick

 

[Rooster1]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...
It depends on which AOW course you're doing. If it includes "deep diving" then an excursion below 100' to demonstrate the effects of narcosis is desired - or, in my case, required to complete the course.
Rick

Rick so you are saying that this is a good thing to do a deep dive and have the student experience narcosis while asked to do skills?

 

[sheck33]

there is no need whatsoever for a student to feel narcosis, it is like saying 'get drunk, get in a car and see what it is like to drive impaired like that so you can handle it next time'
It is a well proven fact that narcosis can impair a diver to the point of the diver not knowing up from down. We dont have student drivers smash into a wall without a seatbelt over and over to prove you should wear one either now do we

use helium for dives below 100', you dont have to be a genius to get mix certified. If you dont have the money then dive shallower, most life is in the shallower than 100' depth anyway.

 

[techdiver2us]

As far as 120' for a first deep dive; well, that may be a bit extreme. A persons narcosis level must be found in that every one is different. As I recall, my AOW deep dive was to 90' and I found it no problem. The main thing is finding any degree of impairment an individual may encounter as they learn how they react to increasing depth.

 

[Scubamedicjoe]

personallyI find 100 feet should be fine for most ao class's however there is one thing to consider is this a avance open water deep class or just the basic advance open water class
if its the a open water class then 100 is fine
personally I feel they shouldnt take a deep class till they got at least 50 dives under there belt ,
this gives them a chance to develop skills and this making it safr for all

 

[jonnythan]

sheck33 once bubbled...
there is no need whatsoever for a student to feel narcosis, it is like saying 'get drunk, get in a car and see what it is like to drive impaired like that so you can handle it next time'
It is a well proven fact that narcosis can impair a diver to the point of the diver not knowing up from down. We dont have student drivers smash into a wall without a seatbelt over and over to prove you should wear one either now do we

use helium for dives below 100', you dont have to be a genius to get mix certified. If you dont have the money then dive shallower, most life is in the shallower than 100' depth anyway.

I've seen programs that do something similar. They have students wear "drunk goggles" that distort their vision and make them feel disoriented and "drunk," then have them perform motor actions like walking and driving a go-cart.

When you're actually drunk, you don't realize how severely your motor skills are impaired.. when you're fuilly conscious but forced to "act" drunk, you start to realize how little you can really do.

I think the program is a great idea. Obviously, we don't want someone to put on drunk goggles and drive on the interstate, but that's not necessary. It raises awareness.

An AOW class is a fairly safe environment. I think it's fine for an instructor to take a class to 100 feet. They're going to be "certified" to go deeper than that anyway, aren't they? Their first time might as well be with an experienced diver keeping an eye on them, instead of with their newly certified AOW buddy. Now, I'm not sure it's a good idea to take them straight down there and practice mask removal, but taking them down there is fine.

 

[Walter]

It depends on the agency (yes, there are differences). If the instructor is teaching a NAUI class, he's keeping in standards. NAUI allows training in AOW to 130 ft. PADI limits dives in AOW to 100 ft. YMCA limits all training dives (in all classes) to 100 ft.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Rooster1 once bubbled...
Rick so you are saying that this is a good thing to do a deep dive and have the student experience narcosis while asked to do skills?

Yes.
Most folks are totally unaware that they are having any symptoms of narcosis at all at the 100-120' range. (I'd bet a poll of the ScubaBoard divers would reveal most feel they do not experience any significant narcosis at 100') The effects are subtile, and in my classes I have a variety of simple exercises that only take a few minutes that the students can evaluate after the dive to determine how that unfelt level of narcosis affects their performance, and, ultimately, their ability to dive safely at those depths. It is a tightly controlled exercise on benign sites... and generally pretty effective at finding some effect that the student can look back on post-dive and say "wow... I didn't feel narced at all, but this proves I was."
Rick