Apeks XL4+ versus Mares Abyss 22

[mscmicrobiology]

I ( and my wife) have been diving the Mares Abyss 22 for nearly 10 years in both cold/warm water. We find that it breathes well in all positions/depths. I do find the second stage very very heavy, particularly on long dives or travelling. My wife and I are doing more travel diving and am in the market for a nice lightweight second stage that could still fill the all purpose nature and easy breathing of my current Abyss. Any thoughts, particularly from those with experience with the XL4 or XL4+ (prefer the 2 HP ports)? Is the XL4 a downgrade, equivalent, or upgrade to the Abyss in general? Any alternatives that might be recommended for our needs?

 

[JackD342]

I have sold both, and worked on both, but can't say I have dived either one.

First, I think they are both great regulators in their own ways. If you continue to use the Abyss 22 in cold water, I would ask if you ever had an environmental seal added to the 1st stage to increase the freeze protection. If not, and interested, drop me a note.

You will absolutely find the Apeks item to be much lighter weight. If your Mares has a rubber hose, the braided hose on the Apeks is also a nice "plus."

Two notes on the XL4 2nd stage:

1. I think that in general, any "compact" 2nd stage loses a little performance versus a full size 2nd stage. But that may just be the difference between "really good" and "very good," and so not really material. XL4 work of breathing is .90 joules/liter in their standard test scenario, versus .70 and .85 for most other Apeks. (Some of that difference may also be due to the 1st stage.) Now to add context, anything at 1.0 or lower is pretty darn good. I do have the Flight which the XL4 is based on, and have been happy with it.
2. The XL4 and Flight 2nd stages are a little more complicated to work on, and require multiple item specific special tools. Think about whether or not that might cause you any pain points when it comes time to service.

Having said that, if I didn't already own a Legend and a Flight, and was shopping for one regulator to use for both cold and travel, the XL4+ would be at the top of my list for consideration.

Within the Aqualung/Apeks line, you might also consider the Core Supreme. It is for cold water use, and while not marketed as light weight for travel it is still fairly light. (I couldn't find weight specs on XL4 to compare though) Other differences - XL4 has over balanced 1st stage, Core has ACD on 1st stage.

 

[reefrat]

OK, sounds like you guys have been pretty satisfied with the Abyss overall but find it a little heavy! The first stage (MR22 earlier version) is certainly a substantial lump of brass but probably my favorite diaphragm first stage apart from the 1/2” primary port. The second stage is IMO not too heavy although I am wondering if you changed the mouthpieces from the originals- which are too small and soft. A Mares Jax mouldable mouthpiece makes a world of difference on the abyss and makes it way more comfortable.
If you are looking for a lighter regulator with similar characteristics then there is a plethora of possibilites from most manufacturers- so many in fact that its difficult to know where to start!
If you want to stay with a diaphragm first stage then maybe:
Apeks DS4/Atx40
Apeks Xl4 - some knowledgeable people have reservations about the design of the second stage but it has done well in some reviews and it seems unlikely that Apeks will field a lemon!
Mares 52X with various second stages
HOG or Deep 6 boutique regulators
Scubapro mk11/17 and G260 or other second stage
Cressi regulators- no experience with them but they are probably great.
I’m sure others will chime in with other options but basically, if you were happy with the Abyss you are going to be very happy with many of the current offerings, especially if the second stages are balanced.

 

[JackD342]

BTW: If the main issue is an uncomfortable 2nd stage, aside from considering a change of mouthpiece then also consider whether you might have a stiff rubber hose that could be switched to braided, and/or whether a swivel might also help. Hose length and routing changes can help also.

 

[buddhasummer]

For me, I've noticed that heavier second stages eg G260 and metal Conshelfs are far more comfortable with a 5' or 7' hose with angled adapter and a stiffer mouth piece.

Using a 40" routed under arm with a soft silicone mouth piece gave me comfort issues as the reg would pull down on one side causing the mouthpiece to irritate my gum or feel like the reg was going to fall out of my mouth, I tried most mouthpieces, CB, SP, AA etc. Long hose and stiffer mouthpiece solved the issue for me. FWIW I use the "flex" braided hoses.

 

[LandonL]

I wouldn't really call Deep 6 boutique.

 

[buddhasummer]

I wouldn't really call Deep 6 boutique.

I think "boutique" sounds cool, special...

 

[mscmicrobiology]

Thanks for the responses. I do really enjoy how my Abyss 22 breathes, despite it being relatively old (well maintained/serviced). I realize that sometimes newer isn’t always better but defer to some of your experiences. I already use braided lighter weight hoses and more comfortable mouthpieces with the Abyss. Despite this, I still find the second stage subjectively heavy and prone to some jaw fatigue on long dives. The first stage is a huge chunk of metal too, but less of a comfort/fatigue issue. Most cold compatible first stages are likely going to be hefty anyway.

I guess what it boils down to that I’m struggling with whether to suck up the jaw fatigue and heavier travel weight for the ease of breathing/relatively easier maintenance/cold-freeze compatible reg (keeping the Abyss - bonus no additional costs) or whether to suck up the potentially marginally worse breathing/relatively more difficult maintenance (not an issue at my LDS but perhaps on a live aboard somewhere remote) for a lighter weight/cold-freeze compatible reg(trade in for XL4+). I don’t mind investing a bit of money if I’m getting some return value but I’m not sure I can afford to have both sets of regs but willing to pay a fair bit if will meet my needs without feeling like a downgrade.

I also appreciated some of your alternative suggestions. I seem to gravitate toward the well tuned simplicity of the types of regs like the Abyss and some of the Apeks (like the XL4+), I’m not one for fiddling with adjustments (knobs and levers). What would you guys do? I realize the common answer is probably dive whatever reg you guys use rather than fool with these.

 

[buddhasummer]

I wouldn't buy an XL4 regardless of how well it may breathe. Specs say cracking effort between 1.2"-1.4" so on paper nothing to write home about. I also don't like the need for, if I counted correctly, 6 specialized tools to service, design appears very convoluted not unlike the Flight.

It seems strange to me that Apeks would market both the flight and XL4 as "travel" regs given the need for specialty tools. I'd almost guarantee that no service centers in exotic locales will have those tools on hand. I've not seen one in the flesh, only studied the service manual and schematic, there may be work arounds. The second stage is basically a flight in a new dress. Doing away with the silly proprietary hoses was a step in the right direction but I think if you're going to market a reg as travel friendly it should include ease of service and not just weight which is stretching a bit to begin with.

The first stage is basically a much more expensive DS4 with the additional hp port on the plus version and a new environmental end cap which also requires a specialized tool to open.

I wouldn't rush out to buy one, but I can see how it may appeal to some.

Just my opinion, as always YMMV.

 

[buddhasummer]

To add, there's not a whole lot of fiddling with knobs and levers, pre dive switch set to minus on surface and plus underwater. Cracking effort adjustment knob can be handy to tune out minor leaks due to current, on the edge tuning, unusual in water positions etc and also to tune out a possible leak, again dependent on tuning, which may be caused by Apeks' own overbalancing first stage "feature". I like the adjustment knob as it allows me to get the most out of my second stage and not have to set them to high cracking effort just to avoid a leak.