Question Experiences with Apeks XL4 Ocea vs Atomic Z3?

[Geo7]

This is the M1 cave ring:

The black ring now has no threads and acts like a thrust washer, and sticks inside the stainless steel front cover retaining ring (now also acting as diaphragm retaining ring) when you unscrew it.

 

[Geo7]

For comparison, the G250V and S620ti. The 620ti is more complex to take apart underwater.

There is are also delrin front cover for Apeks regs (sold by Scubasupport-NL) that make it a breeze:

And yes, the G260 is awesome and designed for taking off the cover underwater (or is it? It has a stopping pin). But the Atomic noticeably smaller and lighter!

I love them all, and ended up keeping ONLY the upgraded T1X regs. Whenever Simon posts a G250V for sale I get tempted, but I love titanium and Atomic's official 3-year service interval for Ti.

 

[Geo7]

(...)

The Atomic has AFC, I would much prefer a manual Venturi control of the G260. Simple is always better to me.

Yes, I like the Scubapro venturi vane (VIVA) more than AFC, and I'd also prefer manual, but I am ok with the AFC. It works (see below).

(...)

The Atomic is an integral soft purge cover, I have seen them pretty ratty and somewhat sticky. And how does it come off?

Yes, the first generation Z1, B1, T1 covers desintegrated over time. The new Ti2, Z2, B2, T2X, T3 etc seem to hold up fine.

And why do I need AFC when I have a tension knob and a manual Venturi control?

This is the expertise realm of @rsingler and I should let him explain it. But in a nutshell: For me the venturi vane was a way to set the reg to blast air like crazy when I need, and disable any freeflowing venturi when I park it. Either fully open, or fully closed. Actually I do the same, sort of, by assembling the AFC in the max position, where it remains fixed (for my primary reg, not the octo though).

But for Atomic engineers, the AFC seems to be a way to ensure that the reg breathes the same at the surface as it does at depth where air is dense. The air density changes the venturi response, and while the AFC is simple, the math and tweaking behind it must have been considerable, because they achieved their goal. Rob explained in the latest Reg Geeks installment how he used the venturi vane to take the edge off the venturi with some regs in some circumstances, so my take is you can achieve the same smoothness through the depth range manually.

I don't think Atomic engineers see a need to detune the reg in order to park it, because their venturi response is so well behaved through the flow and depth range. Perhaps that is why they breathe so smoothly. Again, these are questions for Rob... I think Atomic see the cracking adjustment purely as a means to detune the reg for case geometry fault in certain positions (looking straight down). And since the TFX does not change breathing resistance as much in response to position, they likely decided it does not need cracking adjustment.

 

[Nemrod]

JFYI, the standard G260 cover has an integral slip ring much simplifying underwater removal compared to the G250 and G250V which has a seperate slip washer. Unless you get the Carbon version and that cover still uses a separate slip ring with a single anti-rotation tab. The (lock) pin is for lawyers, remove it and throw it away.



The Atomic second stages you have to purchase the cave cover as an extra which retails around $110 each. The G260 comes with the cave ring ready to go out of the box. I am still very dubious of the longevity of soft purge covers. Maybe they will last a few years, maybe a dozen but I am diving regularly G250s that are 30 years old give or take, will those soft covers last that long and still be good to go? But maybe they do and since we live in a throwaway world now perhaps it does not matter. The larger size of the G260 vs the compact Atomic is an advantage because it provides the full size diaphragm and buoyancy in the water.

 

[Geo7]

Hi everybody,

I would like to finally buy my own equipment after years of diving - yeah!
Computer and ABC equipment I already have, so now regulator and jacket are pending. I like diving in local lakes, so having a cold water regulator is important to me, but it should also be good for traveling.

I have so far narrowed down my research to the following two sets. I wanted to ask who of you uses (one of) the models, what are your experiences? Following are the pros and cons I see:

Apeks XL4 (Ocea).
+ Apeks has a great reputation
+ the reg is compact and light for travel
+ I like the design very much
+ I found it for a good price (550 Euro for 1st & 2nd stage incl. octopus).
- Annual maintenance compared to other models (2 years for Scubapro models and Atomic)
- I read somewhere that the small size of the 2nd stage could imply a lower breathing comfort and might be disadvantageous for future dry suit diving (?)

There are two versions of the XL4, the original and the new version with sustainable materials which is sold under the name XL4 Ocea, which I am interested in. However, I have heard that with the original XL4 the 2nd stage housing is not very stable. Maybe this is different with the Ocea (?)

Atomic Z3 and Z2

+ 2 years maintenance interval, thereby cost-friendly, although the actual maintenance seems to turn out to be more expensive than other regulators, about 200 euros. Nevertheless, the total cost of Atomic Z3 would therefore likely break even with XL4 after 3 years
- I have heard from a store that the regulator in greater depths in cold water relatively easily free flows, what do you think of this statement?
- high purchase price (700 Euro for 1st & 2nd stage, incl. octopus).

I'm gladly open to further suggestions from you. I was recommended the Scubapro MK19/G260, but frankly I don't like the design at all.

Thanks in advance to the round!
Manu

Apologies to the OP if we seem to be hijacking the thread. So back to XL4 vs Z3, specifically with your location (Germany) in mind.

Atomic is not well represented in Europe, and finding a technician that knows how to fill the ambient chamber perfectly with Christolube/Tribolube will be important. That filling/sealing service with lube is not cheap either, so perhaps inquire with a shop first. Freezing and freeflows are not an issue if the reg is maintained well, which can include an annual top-up with Tribolube. I dove a T2X through a winter in Germany in 3°C (37°F) lakes to 40 m / 130 feet. I feel the Atomic has better workmanship and technology than Apeks, but I have not breathed from the XL4. The small size may have been offset with stronger venturi, but all those breathing preferences end up being subjective. It'll breathe fine.

Apeks used to be a no-brainer in Europe when their prices were unbeatable. Apeks is also easy to service, and it's easier to find technicians in Europe that know them well. But to be honest if I had to spend 550 Euro on a set (1st and 2nd stage) I'd be looking at a Mk17/G260 (or as Lex wrote a Zeagle F8 if the price is right and a technician can be found), and, if I can get it serviced at a similar price, an Atomic. I may be biased by remembering that a Apeks ATX set was just 220 Euro until recently, and the XL4 is not much different. For warm water vacation diving I'd take an Atomic, probably unsealed, no contest. But I do have a preference for piston regs. It has to be said that many divers prefer the ease of service of diaphragm regs nowadays, and you can almost say it's the standard. If you dive year round in Germany a diaphragm 1st stage makes more sense because you don't have to worry about the ambient chamber being done well.

So long story short, a Mk17/G260 is probably better value and as common as Apeks in Europe. The XL4 is totally fine, and if the smaller size is important to you and worth the price, then that's a good choice, except annual maintenance is a deal breaker for me. Didn't it used to be two years for Apeks? The Atomic is something more special in my mind than the Mk17/G260 and XL4. But Atomic has it's quirks, and you have to find a good technician first. Lex is right: the Zeagle F8 is a good balance here, but check who services it in your area.

Mk19evo: Too heavy for travel IMHO.

Mares Abyss is great for diving winter lakes in northern Europe and competitively priced. Perhaps you can find some cheap plastic second stages for travel.

Regarding the future of Aqualung/Apeks after the Baring takeover, I think they will be fine, but during the takeover they'll experience temporary supply problems.

Last not least, a lot of regulator junkies buy mostly used, and we are still around...

 

[Geo7]

JFYI, the standard G260 cover has an integral slip ring much simplifying underwater removal compared to the G250 and G250V which has a seperate slip washer. Unless you get the Carbon version and that cover still uses a separate slip ring with a single anti-rotation tab. The (lock) pin is for lawyers, remove it and throw it away.



The Atomic second stages you have to purchase the cave cover as an extra which retails around $110 each. The G260 comes with the cave ring ready to go out of the box. I am still very dubious of the longevity of soft purge covers. Maybe they will last a few years, maybe a dozen but I am diving regularly G250s that are 30 years old give or take, will those soft covers last that long and still be good to go? But maybe they do and since we live in a throwaway world now perhaps it does not matter.

YES, good points! Ok, time for my pet peeve now: Don't you find that G260 and G250V purge button decals scratch way to easily?

I thought all regs are throwaways compared to AL Conshelfs, SP BAs and Mares Abyss?

 

[Sevenrider860]

The XL4 second stage is very similar to the Flight and requires special tools. I am not a fan of the first stage end cap, but at least the rest of the first stage is traditional Apeks. The special tool requirements on the XL4 are enough to make me prefer the Atomic Z3 over that model.

 

[soarManu]

I've been diving the the XL4 Ocea regs for over 80 dives now. I prefer them for travelling and warm temp. So far, I've enjoyed their simplicity and have absolutely no jaw fatigue. I haven't tried the Atomic. For cold water I dive with my trusty Apeks XTX200, I still can't find a better regulator, for me.

Anyway, no matter what anyone says, this is all a matter of taste and preference.

@amado_sarhan Since I'm not going to buy to regulator sets, would you still consider the XL4 a good model to go diving in cold water?

 

[soarManu]

Hey guys, thank you very much for the detailed responses to my question and the debate you had that helped me a lot to get my head around some general things to consider! Also many thanks @Geo7 for your summary post that helped me a lot as it boiled it down and made it easy to digest the complex background info for me.

It seems to me that there's still some research I've got to do. It's good to hear that the initial three regulators I've mentioned all seem to be good, with individual pros and cons. I'll keep a closer look at those three:
- Atomic's Z2 set
- Scubapro Mk17/G260 or perhaps MK25
- Apeks XL4 Ocea

I especially need to do some more research for the XL4 and I will pop into a shop asap to see what they can tell me about how difficult and expensive this model is to service. The reason why I'm still leaning about towards the XL4 is the fact that it is the cheapest model of the three that I could get (around € 100 cheaper than the MK17/G260 and around € 180 than the Z3). So I hope to be able to shed some more light on this asap.

 

[Geo7]

It's always great to see the conclusion of threads like this one, so thanks for keeping us posted!

The XL4 will be fine in cold water. The new Mk25evo apparently has improved a lot for cold water performance and depending on depth, season and experience/technique it could work flawlessly in german lakes. For 25 meters depth at 6-8°C you should be ok wth a Mk25, but 40m at 4°C the Mk17 or Apeks make more sense. If you dive those conditions a lot, then a G260 or XTX50 second stage (more metal) is better.

The Apeks will have standard costs for service. Only maybe a Mares or Scubapro M2+e/R195 would be cheaper. The questionmark for service cost is the Atomic with the christolube/tribolube filling. Last I checked Tribolube costs 3x less in the US vs Europe. The interval and cost of service is what will be important to inquire at the shop(s).

So it seems to boil down to: For your location, if you want a new set and need to keep the cost down, the XL4 is good. Ideally you'd try an Atomic, and if you feel it's special enough to pay extra, then you know. It's hard to make recommendations when all choices are more than good...

Note: all the above advice favouring Apeks is for Europe (where I lived). For someone in California (where I live now), I'd be swayed towards recommending Zeagle, Atomic, Deep6, based on prices and availability of good service technicians. And Scubapro at either location.