Are backplates and wings not for noobs?

[WaterWolf]

Here's another thread I just came across that discusses beginers using a BP/W:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/255567-why-not-bp-w-beginner.html

 

[RJP]

Hmm - something odd happened. [Deleted]

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Here's another vote for BP/W to start. I rented jackets at first, but before I went shopping I did a little research. I shied away from wings thinking it was strictly technical (that and the one guy I'd met with a wing was enthusiastic to the point of messianic fervour, which rubbed me the wrong way... my mistake...). But I read a book about improving my skills and it suggested trying a wing to improve trim.

I then did a little googling and indeed the reports were wuite positive about diving with a wing instead of a jacket, so I reasoned it would be easier, not harder to dive. I purchased a DiveRite Transpac with Venture Wing, and honestly I loved it.

I have since switched from the Transpac to a steel BP, and I love it even more. I won't slag the Transpac, I enjoyed diving with it and I would never accuse a Transpac owner of making a fatal mistake. The choice of padded harness with adjustable pull tabs vs. a steel plate with a single piece of 2" webbing is complex, and we can argue all day about it. In the end, I opted for reliability, ease of replacement (note that the wing moved right over onto the new BP), and the steel plate is helpful for getting weight off the hips and onto the back. This helps immensely with trim.

Right now, I dive a 3 mil wet suit with an AL80 and no weights at all. Bliss!

I can't see myself diving a jacket again. I am doing the minimalist thing at the moment (just 3 D rings). But if I wanted more, I could thread them on. My Transpac came with ditchable weight pockets, you can buy a pair if you like the idea. If you want a pocket on your waist you can buy one, but I think you will find that getting packets added to your exposure suit is a far better idea: it's easier to reach things in a thigh pocket than above your waist.

Overall, I would be amazed if you went with a BP+wing and found yourself selling it to buy a jacket. It's your call in the end, but I hope my experience helps your decision.

 

[WaterWolf]

Given the facts as stated by the OP, by definition that just ain't the case in this case.

The OP says:

"I am not one of those guys that sit around on the butts watching tv playing video games. i hunt infact i lost 30 pounds from aug 28th till oct 30. I had no proplem hiking 2 or even 3 miles to a hunting spot.
I have hiked 5 miles up mountains from ky to Nc to new mexico. A few years ago i did a 5 mile hike with my dad up 3000 feet a mountain in spring creek north carolina."

Sounds like he's in pretty decent shape to me...

 

[RJP]

A person can still be big and be in decent shape. It sounds like you are.

Given the facts as stated by the OP, by definition that just ain't the case in this case.

If I were the instructor I would want a signed medical release from the OP's physician, even if he indicated "NO" on every question. In fact I would ask the OP to ensure the physician specifically initialed the sections on cardiovascular and metabolic diseases so that I could be sure that the physician actually read them.

If I was the OP's physician I'm pretty sure I'm not going to sign the release without a treadmill stress test and a full metabolic workup. Then I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to sign the form because it is quite literally impossible for a person who is 440lbs to present without detectable cardiovascular disease and/or a metabolic disorder - impaired glucose tolerance if not frank diabetes. The stress that morbid obesity places on the CV/MET systems is well known, and I'd have a tough time checking the box next to "I find no medical conditions that I consider incompatible with diving."

"Dr RJP, please explain to the jury and the family of the deceased why, despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, you cleared bigtim6656 for diving..."

Here's the PADI form, and I'm sure every other agency's is similar. Particularly note the sections on cardiovascular and metabolic disease:

http://www.padi.com/english/common/courses/forms/pdf/10063-Ver2-0.pdf

Tim - have you discussed your weight with the instructor/shop you'll be doing your course with? I'd hate for you to get down there and they turn you away at the last minute. Have you talked to your physician about scuba diving? You're looking at buying a lot of gear apparently - some of it custom - and I'd hate to see you do that and then not be able to use it.

Don't be discouraged by other's negative comments.

Dive safe,
WW

Tim, this post is not "negativity" about your weight. It's about being prudent about your safety.

 

[SparticleBrane]

The OP says:

"I am not one of those guys that sit around on the butts watching tv playing video games. i hunt infact i lost 30 pounds from aug 28th till oct 30. I had no proplem hiking 2 or even 3 miles to a hunting spot.
I have hiked 5 miles up mountains from ky to Nc to new mexico. A few years ago i did a 5 mile hike with my dad up 3000 feet a mountain in spring creek north carolina."

Sounds like he's in pretty decent shape to me...

You can't weigh 440lbs (or even 330lbs) and be "in pretty decent shape".

Don't kid yourselves. Someone that weighs that much is, in all likelihood, a heart attack waiting to happen while they're diving.

 

[WaterWolf]

Given the facts as stated by the OP, by definition that just ain't the case in this case.

If I were the instructor I would want a signed medical release from the OP's physician, even if he indicated "NO" on every question. In fact I would ask the OP to ensure the physician specifically initialed the sections on cardiovascular and metabolic diseases so that I could be sure that the physician actually read them.

If I was the OP's physician I'm pretty sure I'm not going to sign the release without a treadmill stress test and a full metabolic workup. Then I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to sign the form because it is quite literally impossible for a person who is 440lbs to present without detectable cardiovascular disease and/or a metabolic disorder - impaired glucose tolerance if not frank diabetes. The stress that morbid obesity places on the CV/MET systems is well known, and I'd have a tough time checking the box next to "I find no medical conditions that I consider incompatible with diving."

"Dr RJP, please explain to the jury and the family of the deceased why, despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, you cleared bigtim6656 for diving..."

Here's the PADI form, and I'm sure every other agency's is similar. Particularly note the sections on cardiovascular and metabolic disease:

http://www.padi.com/english/common/courses/forms/pdf/10063-Ver2-0.pdf

Tim - have you discussed your weight with the instructor/shop you'll be doing your course with? I'd hate for you to get down there and they turn you away at the last minute. Have you talked to your physician about scuba diving? You're looking at buying a lot of gear apparently - some of it custom - and I'd hate to see you do that and then not be able to use it.



Tim, this post is not "negativity" about your weight. It's about being prudent about your safety.

As I posted before, the OP does 5 mile hikes into the mountains. He must be in some kind of shape. Besides that, people do dive with known medical conditions. Do a search for divers with diabetes and I think you'll be surprised with what you find. I totally agree, the OP should be cleared by his Dr but being large is certainly not a reason not to clear him. My doc didn't order any treadmill or stress tests for me and I'm rather large. I sign that release form every time I use a dive operator. I haven't had any problems. I'm not a doctor but I think a persons blood pressure may dictate what tests are needed. No matter, people shouldn't be profiled because of their size. To say ÄûI>it is quite literally impossible for a person who is 440lbs to present without detectable cardiovascular disease and/or a metabolic disorder - impaired glucose tolerance if not frank diabetes</I> just isn't true. Sure, being overweight can lead to a lot of illnesses but to automatically say a person has health issue because of his size is crazy. A person can be large and have some fat but in reality (and not according to some doctors height/weight chart) if they have a large frame, they might not be that much 'overweight'. There are plenty of medical reasons to not let someone dive but being large shouldn't be one of them. They wouldn't sell wetsuits in size 6XL if that were the case. Of course the OP should be prudent about his safety but if there is a problem, this news will come from his doctor and not the Internet. Just my 2 cents...

 

[RJP]

The OP says:

"I am not one of those guys that sit around on the butts watching tv playing video games. i hunt infact i lost 30 pounds from aug 28th till oct 30. I had no proplem hiking 2 or even 3 miles to a hunting spot.
I have hiked 5 miles up mountains from ky to Nc to new mexico. A few years ago i did a 5 mile hike with my dad up 3000 feet a mountain in spring creek north carolina."

Sounds like he's in pretty decent shape to me...

Interestingly naive lack of appreciation for the obvious. Reminds me of an old joke:

A guy falls off the observation deck of the Empire State Building. As he passes an open window on the way down someone asks him how he's doing.

"Pretty well so far..."

Sure, being overweight can lead to a lot of illnesses but to automatically say a person has health issue because of his size is crazy. Just my 2 cents...

Morbid obesity is a recognized medical condition. It is a "health issue" in and of itself, the presence of which is simply incompatible with any possible definition of being "in pretty decent shape."

 

[WaterWolf]

You can't weigh 440lbs (or even 330lbs) and be "in pretty decent shape".

Don't kid yourselves. Someone that weighs that much is, in all likelihood, a heart attack waiting to happen while they're diving.

Sorry, that' just not true.

 

[WaterWolf]

Morbid obesity is a recognized medical condition. It is a "health issue" in and of itself, the presence of which is simply incompatible with any possible definition of being "in pretty decent shape."

We only know the OP's height and weight. He could be 3.6 foot wide across at the shoulders and be built like a brick *****house with a small beer belly. Would that make him obese? I don't think we have enough information to make that determination based soley on height and weight.