Are BOW and AOW classes really changing that much

[boulderjohn]

We started planning our dives and he had never seen a dive table, nor had any idea to use one. He said, I was told my computer will do all this for me. I then spent an hour teaching him tables.

There are two version of the course--one with tables and one with computers. If the student took the computer version of the course, then the student should have had extensive training in how to use a computer to plan and execute a dive.

and asked some questions that required thinking like atmospheric pressure at levels, what is oxygen content in straight air and he was baffled. So I sais ok these are some more advanced items lets see what he learned diving, if he knew how to bring up an unconscious diver, if he learned basic compass navigation, ascent rates, where to make a safety stop etc... This was all new info to him.

Surfacing an unconscious diver is explained in the PADI OW course content, but it is not practiced in the course. It is a part of the Rescue Diver course. Please note that there have been extremely few known instances an unconscious diver being surfaced and then being revived in the history of scuba diving. As for the rest....

• The percentage of oxygen in air will be covered in a nitrox course, but it has no value for a diver otherwise. How would knowing that affect a dive plan?
• Basic compass navigation is covered briefly in the academic portion of the course, and it is required for the open water dives. A student is required to demonstrate the ability to follow a compass direction on the surface, and the student is required to follow a direction, turn, and follow the reciprocal heading under water.
• Ascent rates are very much a part of the academic instruction, the pool instruction, and the open water dives.
• Safety stops are explained in the course content and are supposed to be included in all the required OW dives.

You can blame poor instruction for the student not knowing these things, but the information is part of the academic materials the student is supposed to study, they are part of the knowledge reviews at the end of each chapter, and they are on the final exam. If a student really has no knowledge of these issues immediately after a class, then you are dealing with a student with a significant problem with short term memory.

 

[Mahoney86]

I'll let a PADI instructor jump in, since I just realized you posted in the Q&A section for Scuba agencies. I simply cannot remember at what point toward the end of the class that the dive tables came into play. I do remember there were multiple questions about dive planning and the tables on the final test, which I believe came after I completed the open water dives.

I will say that I felt I didn't get enough time with the dive tables and planning actual dives with them.

Tests are another item of concern, I remember taking a quiz after each chapter and then taking a final non open book test at the end before the pool dives, again this was NAUI and was back in 2011. My friend had all quizzes and a short open book final test.

 

[Mahoney86]

There are two version of the course--one with tables and one with computers. If the student took the computer version of the course, then the student should have had extensive training in how to use a computer to plan and execute a dive.

Surfacing an unconscious diver is explained in the PADI OW course content, but it is not practiced in the course. It is a part of the Rescue Diver course. Please note that there have been extremely few known instances an unconscious diver being surfaced and then being revived in the history of scuba diving. As for the rest....

• The percentage of oxygen in air will be covered in a nitrox course, but it has no value for a diver otherwise. How would knowing that affect a dive plan?
• Basic compass navigation is covered briefly in the academic portion of the course, and it is required for the open water dives. A student is required to demonstrate the ability to follow a compass direction on the surface, and the student is required to follow a direction, turn, and follow the reciprocal heading under water.
• Ascent rates are very much a part of the academic instruction, the pool instruction, and the open water dives.
• Safety stops are explained in the course content and are supposed to be included in all the required OW dives.

You can blame poor instruction for the student not knowing these things, but the information is part of the academic materials the student is supposed to study, they are part of the knowledge reviews at the end of each chapter, and they are on the final exam. If a student really has no knowledge of these issues immediately after a class, then you are dealing with a student with a significant problem with short term memory.

Thank you for this thorough response. I agree 21% oxy content has no relevant in a dive plan, neither does atmospheric pressure and the deference's with atmospheres absolute. Though through my basic class we had pretty substantial work on this, I remember seeing demonstrations of potato chip bags underwater and in air planes. Clearly it now seems it is not a PADI issue, though I am surprised some of the content I received in basic is now in a separate Rescue Course. The issue seems with the instructor and as well as my buddy. I think its just a matter of the teaching style. I know when I reviewed dive tables with him and he was clueless even though I described in great detail, when I handed him the pencil and paper he had no clue. After walking him through the steps he picked it up. End of the day he will be certified and I will spend some time in the pool and a quarry with him practice skills as I want to be confident in my dive partner as well

 

[w3dge]

Atmosphere pressures etc were definitely covered in my course. And the final exam was closed book, and I'm pretty sure it was ~100 questions. There was also a second exam on dive planning using the eRDP.

 

[Mahoney86]

Atmosphere pressures etc were definitely covered in my course. And the final exam was closed book, and I'm pretty sure it was ~100 questions. There was also a second exam on dive planning using the eRDP.

he only had 50 questions, I remember 100 questions myself also.

 

[boulderjohn]

Atmosphere pressures etc were definitely covered in my course. And the final exam was closed book, and I'm pretty sure it was ~100 questions. There was also a second exam on dive planning using the eRDP.

The final exam has been 50 questions since at least the time I was certified, which was nearly 20 years ago. The eRDP was invented less than a decade ago, and its use was included in the final exam--no separate exam required. If you had a spearate exam for it, something unusual was going on. The eRDP is a calculator version of the tables, and it produces the exact same answers as the tables. There was only one question on the tables version of the final exam that cannot be answered with the eRDP, and that is because it asks a question about the amount of residual nitrogen time needed to compute a repetitive dive, and that calculation is done by the eRDP and is thus not part of the process.

When I was certified (nearly 20 years ago), we did everything we the tables. I then went to Cozumel for my first dive trip, and I took AOW immediately. We did the first couple dives from shore, and we used the tables. Then we did the deep dive, and the instructor explained that this would be a multi-level dive, so the tables would not work. He gave me a computer to use for that day's diving instead. The next day, I went on my first ever unsupervised dive, and when we were done, I produced my log book and my PADI tables so I could do all the calculations and plan the next dive. That was when it dawned on this dull-witted new diver that I could not use the tables for that multi-level dive, either. I realized everyone else on the boat was highly amused. "It makes a good Frisbee," one of them said. They all had computers. When I went home, I bought a computer immediately.

I don't know how many recreational dives I have made around the world since then. Taking a wild estimate of how many of my dives are technical and subtracting those from my total, I would guess I have done something over 600-700 such dives over those two decades. Check my profile to see where those dives took place. In all that time, the embarrassing episode in which I tried to use my tables in Cozumel remains the only time I have seen a recreational diver attempt to use tables--any tables--outside of an instructional setting. Whether they are taught to use them or not, divers simply do not use them. The theory of current instruction is that it makes more sense to teach the diver how to use the instrument they will use (computer) rather than the one they will not use (tables).

 

[Mahoney86]

John I thank you for your feedback. I am young so I am all about computers, however Ive used my dive tables on every single multiple dive that I did, no where near 6-700 but Ive done my fair share. That is just how I learned and how I always dove.Now with that said I am always willing to make a positive change. What confuses me with not knowing dive tables is how do you determine (before you dive) what your MDT at a specific depth is while your sitting on the boat waiting? My computer will tell me my SIT time, remaining nitrogen levels etc... so I know that part is covered. Though If I just did a 102' dive for 38 minutes, performed a 1hour sit and I want to hit the top of a wreck at 70 feet. Once I jump in the water and head down to depth, my computer will tell me how much remaining bottom time I have, however while I am sitting on the boat how would I know if I can do a 45 minute dive or am I better off sitting on the boat for another 45min to bring me into the next pressure group?

 

[Hawkwood]

... The theory of current instruction is that it makes more sense to teach the diver how to use the instrument they will use (computer) rather than the one they will not use (tables).

Before the usual crowd jumps on John, yes...you can (and do) teach decompression "theory" using computers. You do not need a table to do that.

In fact, I have found we have much more time to address "theory" than before, because we are not spending time with folks who do not "get" the tables. For those who say that is ridiculous, when I was a DM I'd spend many a class working one on one with a student to get them to understand how to manipulate the table. That was a really, really efficient use of time.

 

[Patoux01]

As I've said, most (virtually all I guess) computers have a planner in it.

You scroll through the depths, it tells you how much NDL time you get at that depth (by 3 feet increments or something). This will be more acccurate than your guesstimation through tables.

 

[boulderjohn]

John I thank you for your feedback. I am young so I am all about computers, however Ive used my dive tables on every single multiple dive that I did, no where near 6-700 but Ive done my fair share. That is just how I learned and how I always dove.Now with that said I am always willing to make a positive change. What confuses me with not knowing dive tables is how do you determine (before you dive) what your MDT at a specific depth is while your sitting on the boat waiting? My computer will tell me my SIT time, remaining nitrogen levels etc... so I know that part is covered. Though If I just did a 102' dive for 38 minutes, performed a 1hour sit and I want to hit the top of a wreck at 70 feet. Once I jump in the water and head down to depth, my computer will tell me how much remaining bottom time I have, however while I am sitting on the boat how would I know if I can do a 45 minute dive or am I better off sitting on the boat for another 45min to bring me into the next pressure group?

The computer's dive planning function will do that for you. Check your manual to see how it work on yours.