Are Thai trained instructors looked down on and turned away in Oz

[FuAn]

*Shrugs shoulders*
Regardless of whether there are good/bad/ugly CDs in Thailand or Australia, the fact of the matter still stands. We allow them to assist, to gauge their skills before employing them, it would be bringing a flame to a fuse to employ someone who you have no knowledge of teaching/assisting ability for your course environment!

But then you'd do that with everyone you did not train yourselves which I would understand you have to get an understanding of ones skills and abilities before let them **** up your reputation with students... But that's a general issue and not a Thai specific... Though with diving, instructors etc is the same as with driving a license doesnt make an experienced driver...


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[adaminhongkong]

Actually what everyone has said so far has been helpfully really.

Are there any Thai trained instructors out there that had trouble getting work in Oz or around? Then have had to prove more than others that they know what theyre doing because they have Thailand branded in their log books etc?

 

[mattoau]

Fortunately most of the operators I've worked with in Oz haven't been as arrogant to dismiss all Thai trained instructors. Their policy has been to look at qualifications and experience, and then team-teach that instructor alongside one of their own for a final appraisal. I've seen locally trained DMs and OWSIs fail this final appraisal based on skill, professionalism etc. and Thai trained ones pass and be offered a job.

However unfortunately I have also met operators who will not even consider anyone trained in Thailand.

 

[DevonDiver]

I believe that this is a myth, pandered by the oft-rejected zero-to-hero type instructors. Thailand does produce a more than a few of those.

Far better for those types to delude themselves that their rejections stems from some 'internecine agency politiks' and 'regional bias', rather than a simple rebuff due to the fact they're credit cards fast-tracked them to a certification level that is inconsistent with their experience... and many employers do not consider them competitively experienced for employment, regardless of what 'pro' c-card they tote.

 

[alcina]

As the recently ex-owner of a shop (yay, time to dive for me now!!) who did all the hiring, I can say that we didn't automatically ditch an application based on where the instructor level training was done. It is a small part of what went into a decision to hire someone.

Doing an on-site evaluation of a potential new employee is the best way to see if said person will fit the team, have the skills & personality to suit the environment and overall give a sense of if it's a good fit.

Your resume should give all the details about your involvement in different areas of diving & supervising etc and your references should be stellar. Yes, I checked references carefully!

Good luck!

 

[phuonguyen]

I think Devon Diver has hit my point (it's buried somewhere in my posts!). If your cert says you've come from a IDC/CDC that has a reputation of pumping out DMs and instructors, as a shop, you have to be a bit wary, as minimal teaching does occur and as an employer and employee of a shop, you don't want to be associated professionally to someone who does not have the skills to teach properly.

 

[DevonDiver]

I think Devon Diver has hit my point (it's buried somewhere in my posts!). If your cert says you've come from a IDC/CDC that has a reputation of pumping out DMs and instructors, as a shop, you have to be a bit wary, as minimal teaching does occur....

To be honest, I don't think the IDC/CDC center itself is the big issue. The IDC is just a teaching course, not a diving course. Given the parameters of the PADI education system, it doesn't take Einstein to deliver the material.

Also, the IE ensures a relatively level playing-field of instructional ability, regardless of region.

What matters is diving ability and breadth of experience. That's something you don't get from an IDC - it's something you gain from varied and extensive diving.

Most scuba industry employers place a (justifiable) emphasis on experience and in-water ability. In that respect, the 'zero-to-hero' types fall woefully short.

Thailand attracts a lot of backpacker-type travellers. They are often sold (or believe) that doing a zero-to-hero IDC in Thailand means they can work their way onwards during their year-break travels, typically with a goal of using their qualification in Cairns. Sadly, their typically deluded (or conned) in that respect - as their experience and diving ability will preclude them from serious consideration for employment.

I think it must be hard for them to accept that they wasted money on an IDC for their desired goals (which were unrealistic)...or are not the 'God-like' dive pro they (so quickly) believe themselves to be.... so better to blame this notion that it is 'all Thailand' that is biased against in Australia.

 

[ozzydamo]

I think Devon Diver has hit my point (it's buried somewhere in my posts!). If your cert says you've come from a IDC/CDC that has a reputation of pumping out DMs and instructors, as a shop, you have to be a bit wary, as minimal teaching does occur and as an employer and employee of a shop, you don't want to be associated professionally to someone who does not have the skills to teach properly.

I disagree there, I think Alcina has the best short answer........
I would add, that speaking Cantonese or Mandarin Chinese would be a great asset nowadays(like Japanese was before it's bubble busted). Russian also......I guess thats what devodiver is driving at with this "internecine agency politiks" foreen language usuage....

You will know when you are ready- when you go to a dive shop and treat them like a golf caddy instead of your boss! "pass me my camera, Laddy"

 

[phuonguyen]

Yeah, languages is one of the major employable points any shop would be looking for, especially if it's within a tourist environment.
Note that it would be teachable language skills not the basic hello, how much, beer??
A few others would be skipper's licence, specialties, equipment tech and basic mechanic work.

Just one thing, if you're planning to do Cairns/Port Douglas, it would be highly advised to do Safety at Sea or the LWC95(??), not too sure on that last one, but it's pretty much when it hits the fan, how to save yourself and the ship.

 

[supergaijin]

I can't comment specifically on Australia but as stated above- the IDC is only a single part of a professional's diving experience. I have received a few inquiries from instructors looking for work. A flag for me is when I see the diving resume- an example:

OW Thailand May 2012
AOW Thailand May 2012
Resc Thailand May 2012

DM Thailand June 2012
OWSI Thailand July 2012

Then there's the usual blah blah about friendly, hard working, professional, safety-conscious etc. etc. Dime a dozen.

It is still possible to get employed like this but usually for DC's who expect the instructor to fit in to a cookie-cutter position. You will get to learn every inch of a lagoon and crack of a swimming pool. When faced with the reality of actually working- not taking courses... that's when most 'zero to hero's drop out.

If the employer needs to front up with work permit application fees, it's not a safe bet to do it for someone who hasn't cut their teeth in the industry, and has 'real' experience living abroad. This is different from doing a RTW trip for 6 months.

My wife did her IDC in Koh Tao- I in fact recommended it as a place to do it. However her diving experience included France, New Zealand from north to south and diving work-experience in Egypt. Her span of diving was more than 10 years as opposed to 10 weeks. That is what will get you 'better' jobs. Speaking 2 or 3 languages doesn't hurt either.