Are there any actual DIR divers here?

[Trace Malinowski]

Hi, just wondering from the content of some of the posts if most of the people here were actually Dir orientated divers.
It would be nice to see users accomplishments and goals as far as Dir training goes.
Henry

Interesting question, Henry. I was going to create a new topic last night about DIR misinformation, but after writing it, Scubaboard.com went offline and it was lost. Also, due to some issues being covered regarding the current phase of DIR training in another message board, the present course standards will find that most DIR divers encountered on message boards will be probably be between the DIR-F and Tech 1levels with a scant few at Cave 2 or Tech 2 and above.

Originally, I started GUE/DIR training 7 years ago after being hired by a company called, Hydronautics - Diving for Science & Adventure, Inc., in 1999. I had been an experienced SCUBA instructor, freediving instructor trainer and professional lifeguard at the time and my new boss was trying to create an elite team of technical divers for scientific research projects. His ambition was to be able to provide teams for deep ocean exploration and research to assist colleges, universities and scientists with gathering everything from information to conducting experiments that they didn't have the capability to do and to be able to provide our services free of charge through memberships and donations to the cause. We began work on two projects. One was locating a U-boat that was recently discovered by another team off Canada and the other was recovering 13,000 year-old native American artifacts. A German, he liked the structure, discipline, standardization and image of DIR and GUE. He wanted Andrew Georgitsis to run our DIR-F and Tech 1 courses since he was GUE's training director at the time. We took DIR-F in November 2000 and Tech 1 in July 2001, but some of our team couldn't make it the couple who did held back the those of us in the class who could complete Tech 1. The endeavor came to an end after September 11, 2001 in the wake of the terror attacks. Our offices were located at 67 Wall Street and while our employer thankfully survived, the investment firm that provided the bulk share of our resources went bankrupt in the post 9/11 market by the end of the year.

The second event that determined my training progression, or lack of progression with GUE, was becoming one of Bob Sherwood's students. By re-taking DIR-F, I found myself stymied by both Andrew Georgitsis' departure from GUE and Bob's standards. I believe that being DIR means you're 100% DIR during team time because one or two other people are relying upon you to give them your best and be part the proactive safety process of DIR diving. But, what you do on your own time should be your right such as solo freediving or cave diving. Bob Sherwood is a pilot and flies airplanes by himself. I only get into small planes when wearing a parachute. Ed Hayes rides motorcycles by himself without a helmet. I have a truck with seatbelts and airbags. So, I don't see why I can surf alone or swim alone and it's okay, but if I dive alone...

Does that make me DIR-oriented? No, I think it makes me an American! :salute:

Lots of good men and women died so that I might have freedom. THANK YOU! So, I'm not going to let that be taken away just because an agency doesn't want to get sued. As a lifeguard, I view my role in a DIR team as exactly that so any argument about solo diving making a bad buddy is a lot of crap. So, yeah, I'm a DIR diver when doing dives with DIR divers.

That said, I educate my own students about DIR team procedures and being good buddies, but also to function independently of me as an instructor and alone at both the recreational and technical levels.

My future DIR training will be probably be with NAUI Tec.

My goal as a DIR diver is to dive Wakulla and Indian Springs once these systems open up to public. Since I voilunteered with the IUCRR to give something back to caving and the community, I'd like to help develop and educate public safety teams in DIR techniques.

 

[MBH]

Are there any actual DIR divers here?

Yes, I'm doing everything I can to be DIR.
About 5 minutes into my open water cert. I knew deep down that there was a better way to do this. Many thanks to TSandM who advised me to go for it and put me in touch with DIR-Atlanta. I got in contact with GUE and I've since hooked up with Mike Loyco of Middle Tenneessee DIR.
Now I get to learn and dive with like minded divers. When I sharpen up a few more of my skills I'll take GUE-F where I'll go for a tech pass.

 

[rollerboi]

I like and appreciate the philosophy. As MBH said, "I [know] deep down that there [is] a better way to do this." As I buy my gear, I plan to buy it all in accordance to DIR/Hogarthian principles. After all, why waste money?

But since I've only just certified as PADI OW, I have nothing close to the skillset required for GUE anything. I plan to continue my training through my LDS and learn as much as I can, so that when I *do* make the crossover (most likely if/when I move back to the pacific northwest), I will be prepared with skills and experience.

 

[FLDVR]

So far so good!
I see some people waiting to take the Fundies and some who have and then some....
For those who have their pass/provisional congratulations, Its hard work and well worth it!

This is a great forum for anyone to ask questions, and enjoy the Dir community and best of all let us know of their accomplishments. The trend of using the internet as a place to receive instruction or as a soapbox to promote ones particular views is very disconcerting! Take the class! you will never regret actual experience....

Ed's response was great and very well stated, and embodies the Dir philosophy.

Trace, well who can argue with your Creds.. you admit Dir and times when you are not Dir and recognize the difference and make your own informed choice.

Henry

Everyone else, let us know how you make out when you take your courses. We'd love to hear about it and support you in your journey.

PS this has been more constructive than I had hoped, thanks for takeing a look and responding!

PS PS. I curently hold a Tech 1 and am working toward Tech 2 and Cave 1 for any one interested.

 

[David P]

where am I? I thought I was reading Scuba Board but obviously I cannot be. I believe it is impossible to have a well thought out DISCUSSION in the DIR forum. I agree with TraceMalin, you're DIR when you want/need to be. Saying that I only dive in backplate/wings, with paddle fins and a long hose. I do NOT do it to impress people, honestly if someone asks me if I'm "one of those DIR divers" I usually say no...as I just want to be another diver, albeit perhaps with better situational awareness. I say that I just see the benefits in this gear configuration. I have taken Fundies and think it was a great class that improved....wait, no, it led me to the practicing of skills that improved my diving skills. Most of the DIR divers that I met in the past were all great guys (still are today) but some of the online BS seems to be trickling into real life with some major attitudes and arguments. So unfortunately I see many DIR divers as the hot headed ego inflated megalomaniacs that I don't care to be associated with. Now if asked I might respond that I'm GUE trained but not DIR

 

[JeffG]

There is no such thing as a DIR diver. Only DIR dives.

 

[edparris]

I was taught that in my NAUI Open Water course. It was put this way: "Active diving is not a hobby; it is a life style".

So, although some would say that DIR definition is simple, I would say that a definition depends on who you talk to.

I agree with everything you've said here. The DIR definition changes from person to person and that person's definition changes over time. GUE certainly didn't invent this stuff; equally valid (i.e. effective and safe) variations of the details have been taught for a long time in a lot of different places. GUE did evangelise a codified set of these practices that were proven effective by the WKPP outside of that project and perform strict evaluations against those standards.

Maybe even some other than than GUE divers are DIR, eh?

I agree that a DIR-minded lifestyle is lived by some divers who have never even heard of GUE. As a result their in water and out of water skills are likely well practiced making them safe effective divers.

With that said there may be some important distinctions between GUE trained DIR divers and non-GUE trained DIR divers. These differences are in the detailed dive protocols and emergency responses. Differences in these areas will add complexity to the dive and the amount of complexity added is proportional to the inherent difficulty of the dive goals. (e.g. the distinctions between a NAUI NTEC and a GUE Tech-1 diver are not significant during a recreational dive but in a dive with planned decompression the dive planning/logistics must compensate for the differences in gas selection and decompression profiles.) [EDIT: I'm not suggesting that members of the same team dive different schedules or gas mixes.]

I'm not saying that GUE divers are better or that non GUE divers are doing it wrong. But it is undeniably easier to organize a dive when you and your teammates have already agreed to the basic plan before you start the dive specific tailoring.

I believe that being DIR means you're 100% DIR during team time because one or two other people are relying upon you to give them your best and be part the proactive safety process of DIR diving. But, what you do on your own time should be your right such as solo freediving or cave diving.

I agree with this also and am actually sorry that you were unable to reconcile your differences with Bob and the GUE standards. (It seems like you'd make a great teammate.) I'm obviously just speculating here but it seems possible that Bob was being extra hard on you because he viewed you as someone who would likely assume a leadership role (official or not) thereby setting an example for other divers. Either way if you do ever get an urge to take a GUE course you might want to give him a call. As one of his current students I think he is pretty reasonable and bet you could work something out (Maybe he has mellowed over the last few years ).

Ed

 

[JeffG]

I'm not saying that GUE divers are better or that non GUE divers are doing it wrong. But it is undeniably easier to organize a dive when you and your teammates have already agreed to the basic plan before you start the dive specific tailoring.

Sounds good on paper, but the reality is that

a) GUE divers taught by different instructors will have slightly different procedures.
b) GUE divers taught over different periods of time will have slightly different procedures.

and the big one

c) In the real world, you would never just jump into the water for a "big" dive with another GUE certified diver.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

(e.g. the distinctions between a NAUI NTEC and a GUE Tech-1 diver are not significant during a recreational dive but in a dive with planned decompression the dive planning/logistics at must compensate for the differences in gas selection and decompression profiles.)

Hi Ed,

I have to completely dissagree with you there. Neither NAUI nor GUE advises or promotes different profiles with different gasses between team members. When we are on a team dive (NAUI or GUE) we are all on the same gas / deco schedule.

What's the point of a team dive if we don't all follow the same plan? Besides, NAUI NTEC and GUE Tech-1 are practically identical in procedure and configuration. Therefore I miss the logic in your statement.

Also, is there not a team meeting prior to every dive, to discuss team order, planned depth, time, deco schedule etc?? Or do you just dive in because someone else is GUE trained?

I'm confused.....

 

[edparris]

Sounds good on paper, but the reality is that
a) GUE divers taught by different instructors will have slightly different procedures.
b) GUE divers taught over different periods of time will have slightly different procedures.

Agreed. Of course I still assert that the difference between east coast DIR and west coast DIR is smaller than the differences found when crossing agency boundaries.

c) In the real world, you would never just jump into the water for a "big" dive with another GUE certified diver.

I didn't mean to imply that GUE divers can or should just jump into the water assuming they are on absolutely the same page with anyone. It just shortens the pre-dive planning considerably if you don't need to define every term and come to a compromise for all differences.