Argon worth it?

[Ghost Diver #]

I dive cold lakes in the winter and was thinking of getting a argon system for my drysuit. I’ve read that it helps with warmth, can anyone tell me if it actually makes a difference? I’m very prone to getting cold...guess I’m a whimp but can’t help it haha.

Thanks just wanted some feedback before I spent my green backs.

 

[Superlyte27]

Not worth it. Get a heated vest if you're getting that cold. Or a rebreather.

 

[PfcAJ]

Try it out.

The trick is getting enough of it in your suit. Hard to do on shallow dives without flushing the suit before you get in the water.

 

[broncobowsher]

After a ton of research, maybe.
My latest theory is that if you don't have enough insulation it can be used as a crutch to make what little you have a little more effective. But if you have good insulation, not going to notice it. Which is where you will see the mix of reports on if it works and it doesn't work when you see comments about it.

As for the rebreather comment, I only picked up a bottle this past summer after I got the rebreather. Most of the rebreather gasses are not a good choice inside a drysuit, too much oxygen or helium. Helium is a great conductor, opposite of Argon, it will make you cold. I have issues with very high concentrations of Oxygen in an environment of synthetic fabrics rubbing each other. So a bottle just for the drysuit. At this point why not Argon? Other then access to fills.

 

[Mr. Sunday]

For me the only reason to run argon is when Im running trimix. Otherwise not really worth it IMO. I tend to get cold very easily and good thermals and a heated vest have been the answer.

 

[Ghost Diver #]

Ok great! That’s the info I needed! Thanks again

 

[Akimbo]

The biggest problem with using Argon in a drysuit is all the moisture given off by the body is trapped. The high humidity dramatically increases the thermal conductivity, negating most the advantage of Argon over air.

 

[PfcAJ]

[abstract] THERMAL CHARACTERISTICS OF DIVING GARMENTS WHEN USING ARGON AS A SUIT INFLATION GAS.

 

[Superlyte27]

After a ton of research, maybe.
My latest theory is that if you don't have enough insulation it can be used as a crutch to make what little you have a little more effective. But if you have good insulation, not going to notice it. Which is where you will see the mix of reports on if it works and it doesn't work when you see comments about it.

As for the rebreather comment, I only picked up a bottle this past summer after I got the rebreather. Most of the rebreather gasses are not a good choice inside a drysuit, too much oxygen or helium. Helium is a great conductor, opposite of Argon, it will make you cold. I have issues with very high concentrations of Oxygen in an environment of synthetic fabrics rubbing each other. So a bottle just for the drysuit. At this point why not Argon? Other then access to fills.

My comments about a rebreather were due to the fact that scuba delivers gas 20 degrees below ambient temperature where as a rebreather is feeding much warmer gas due to recycling your breath and the exothermic reaction to a scrubber. I use a bottle for suit, but it's filled with air.

 

[boulderjohn]

The question of this thread is "argon worth it?" That question goes beyond whether or not argon does a better job than air at keeping you warm. The question is whether that extra warmth, assuming it exists, is worth the extra cost and effort required to use it. I generally dive with a drysuit in three situations--open freshwater sites with temperatures in the high 50s, ocean sites with temperatures in the low 70s, and caves in the low 70s. I have only done occasional dives in the 40s, but they are actually the most instructive for this discussion.

I used to use argon with some frequency at the freshwater sites, but since we did not have a good way to bring it on extended trips, I used to use a big bottle and top it off with air as the weekend went along, so I was really using "airgon." In addition, without a booster, as the supply bottle pressure dropped, so did out argon fill ability, so we were once again forced to top off with air and use "airgon." Frankly, I never noticed a difference on those dives, and I eventually just went to straight air. I assume that the reason I didn't notice a difference is that I did not flush the suit as described in post #8.

What I have learned on those dives is that if I use my medium weight underwear, I am usually just fine using air for dives in the 70-80 minute range. On longer dives, I get cold, so on those dives, I put on my heavier weight underwear and stay toasty warm. On the dives in the low 70s, both ocean and cave, I am usually perfectly comfortable with my medium weight underwear on dives in the 70-80 minute range. The exceptions have been when I have had to work harder than normal in a cave, in which case I tend to get uncomfortably warm, especially if I wear a hood.

My few cases of colder water diving are most instructive. They were not really cold--about 46° F, but I made the mistake of wearing my warmest underwear and a hood while inflating with air. By the end of dives lasting for about an hour, I was sweating. I certainly did not need to be any warmer.

So, the moral of my stories is that if you have the right undergarment for a dive, there is no need to use argon, so that extra cost and effort is not worth it. I have never dived in truly cold water, and I have never done extended time dives. In those cases, I might very well become interested in using argon, but nothing like that is on my schedule these days.