Back inflate: Apeks Black Ice vs Zeagle Stilleto vs scubapro nighthawk

[partha]

Need some help making a decision. My first BC purchase. Have narrowed it down to the
Apeks Black Ice, Zeagle Stilleto and Scubapro Nighthawk. Does anyone have any experience with any of these. Also looking at the Mares Pure or Bolt SLS, which is about half the price of the others and I'm not sure why.

And does anyone online give decent sales on scuba equipment during Black Friday?

much thanks in advance.

 

[EdC]

Partha,

While I can't give you a comparison with the other two, I do have the Knighthawk.
Quality is top notch and it works fine for local diving in New England, actually has far more lift than I need for wet or drysuit diving, fresh or salt. It has three dump locations and that's good because with the big wing it is sometimes tricky to get all the air out without some maneuvering.
Integrated weight system is solid no problems with inadvertently loosing ballast, and you can squeeze 6 pound weights into the rear trim pockets.
Dries relatively quickly.
Only has two small areas for storage, one tiny pocket that can hold a small light and a drop down mesh pocket that is bigger (couple of lights or SMB/spool).

That said I just picked up a Zeagle Express Tech for warm water diving after I found the Knighthawk a bit cumbersome on a recent trip to the Philippines. The Knighthawk was acceptable but really overkill for tropical waters, thin suit and aluminum tanks.

 

[Schwob]

My thoughts:

I initially liked my Apeks Black Ice because of those reasons:
- got a good price at the time
- plenty of pocket space
- plenty of weight capability
- could mount doubles with an adapter, but Apeks limits the size (weight) of those.
- size adjustability in a small range (mine XL-XXL

Honestly, out of those, I only used the pocket space and the size adjustability (lost a little weight). Around dive 50 I did a fundamentals in tech class and came away thinking:
- a backplate and wing setup is way less scary then they look and I have no idea why do many LDS push a BCD upon a diver
- BP&W is way more versatile
- packs better
- with an alu plate, weights less

I dove my Apeks Black Ice for another 60 ... 70 dives before changing over to a BP&W.. Inertia & I cobbled my BP&Ws together from used and on sale parts. Mine is built and I use it now. I use tech shorts (DGX)
(does anybody have an idea how to add suspenders to those?)
or suit integrated shorts for pockets, pending on what I dive.
Two more BP&W for the kids are in process (waiting for dives to come along to try...). My wive will get my sons BCD...

I still like my Apeks Black Ice. If I were planning to go the DM / instructor route (I am not), I would keep it. But it won't fit anyone else in the family so, sooner or later it will need to go.

As is (imho: no need for a BCD unless one were obligated to demo using one as instructor DM by whichever outfit one teaches for), I regret that I bought it. Not because it did not perform, but because I was ill advised in going for a BCD over a BP&W and even so I read all the techie and know it all mumbo jumbo on Scubaboard... I did not get it at the time... It was too far ahead for me... or I just was too full of what I decided was good based on in person advise, even so I had exactly zero experience to back it up... Now I do know better... and I listen better too... And I don't ever listen to a shop pushing a sale for something again w/o double checking other options first and doing a good enough job on that...

 

[HeatCker]

pretty much what EdC said above
i have a knighthawk and am very satisfied
it has served me well
its built well, its tough, rugged and has taken a lot of use
it has an excellent tank strap, very secure
as it got older, less new, i cut the bottom and stripped out all the floaty bits, ie the inner foam, soft back padding and removed the cummerbund .... still works very well
i like the waist weight pockets, very secure
the trim pockets are good as well but i don't use them often
i've had to use a dab or two of aqua seal to patch small leaks in the bladder but as all bladders age that's not unusual
overall i'm pleased with the knighthawk
when the time comes i wouldn't hesitate to replace it but i would also look at a bp&w this time around

 

[Trailboss123]

If you are willing to spend that much on a BC, you might want to consider the following: http://www.xdeep.eu/lightweight-traveler-scuba-bcd-ghost-bc-system-pr-51.html

I added the attachable weight pockets and I couldn't be happier. Works everywhere I need it to. Cold water with drysuit and warm water tropics. I went with the deluxe version in order to have the quick release shoulder strap buckles.

 

[tbzep]

My issued BCD is the Zeagle 911. It has the same "rip cord" weight dump system as the Stiletto. I don't care for it. If you want to hand up your weights before climbing on the boat, you have to unzip the compartments and dig out the weights. If you practice dumping weights, you have to sit out and thread the rip cord system back in place each time. It is something that needs to be practiced because the little red handles aren't always that easy to find with heavy work loads and thick gloves. We have switched back to weight belts and just use the zippered weight compartments for storage.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @partha

I can't give you a comparison either. I've had a Scubapro Knighthawk for 11 1/2 years, a few over 1200 dives. It has a little Aqua Seal on it now but is still in good shape.

The tank cinch is excellent, as are the ditchable weights, both extremely secure. I use only the butt dump and have no trouble venting all the air by going slightly head down/right butt up. I have dived it with up to 20 lbs of weight, it holds more. I don't need much in the way of pockets. I keep my DSMB in a mesh back pouch attached to the bottom of the plate and my spool is on a waist D ring. I use the pull down pocket occasionally and find it fine, I hear it's been redesigned, have not seen it.

I have traveled extensively with the Knighthawk but it does weigh about 9 lbs and is somewhat bulky. I recently bought an Aqua Lung Outlaw for more convenient travel. It weighs about 5 lbs and packs much smaller. I have just under 100 dives on it. So now I dive my Knighthawk at home in Florida and travel with the Outlaw, I posted a review of the Outlaw, posts #s 57, 63, 65 Aqualung Outlaw The only thing that initially bothered me about the BC was the position of the 1st stage, so that it would strike me in the back of the head with full neck extension when I used my DIN regulator with a yoke adapter. By placing the BC appropriately high on the tank, this has been entirely eliminated. It is not perfect but makes for a good travel BC.

Best of luck in your BC shopping and good diving,

Craig

 

[partha]

Thanks,
I should have added that I am going the instructor route- one of the reasons I'm looking for these options. Personally I would prefer a self assembly BP&W. The DC in Philippines where I did my DM used only those- for fun divers as well as courses and they were so much easier- less amount of sizes to stock...easier to maintain...I dont know why jacket BCs havent gone the way of the dinosaurs yet.

@EdC I dive only tropical asian waters so maybe the nighthawk is too much. How much have you used your zeagle? Happy with it?

@Schwob If you are looking to get rid of your Black Ice I might take it off your hands

@scubadada cheers i'll take a look at the outlaw.

Seems, despite the weight everyone seems happy with their Nighthawks. Tough choice. Price will be a def decider.

Anyone know who has good Black Friday sales?

 

[EdC]

EdC I dive only tropical asian waters so maybe the nighthawk is too much. How much have you used your zeagle? Happy with it?

I wish I could tell you, won't really know until I get to the Keys in January. I think from reviews it gets here as well as other online sources it should work out well for travelling. If I hadn't gone with the Zeagle I was seriously considering the SP Litehawk (more traditional and pushed by my LDS), or the Outlaw (couldn't find one near me). The clincher was finding the Zeagle at Scuba.com for $225.00.

Seems, despite the weight everyone seems happy with their Nighthawks. Tough choice. Price will be a def decider.

Anyone know who has good Black Friday sales?

I definitely am happy with the Knighthawk for local diving, and i'm not knocking it at all, maybe that's why I have never seen them deeply discounted like some other BCD's.

 

[diversteve]

Zeagle's direct competition for the Knighthawk is actually the Ranger but the Stiletto is a better choice for travel purposes, I can cram a Stiletto into a carry-on (not much else though) no way my Ranger will do that. For tropical diving, both the Knighthawk or the Ranger seem like more than you need - here in the states people in SoCal dive Rangers in full 7mm suits with a lot of lead.. And there's just a lot to it, the jacket, cumberbund, even the cut of the shoulders is more solid than say a Stiletto - I've owned both.

fwiw, I went to a shop once to buy a Knighthawk until I tried the Ranger - probably the fit was better. Unlike the above poster, I like the Ripcord, if you have to drop weights you don't have to replace anything 10 minutes later to continue diving - if you drop any of the pull-out systems you'll need to use a belt till you can replace them. And it's easy to re-thread.

In the Zeagle line you might look at an Express Tech also, it's pretty configurable being built around their soft backplate. Add either weight system, pockets etc as you'd like. Probably prices around the same as the Stiletto - $600ish.

Do you have a shop in mind you'll be working at? You might find out what they want you in while teaching/assisting. I have a DIR friend who dives a bp/w - to teach she grabs a rental back-inflate from their inventory - it's easier to teach the skills like doff/don and also it's a brand they sell. She explains but does not promote the brand (Scubapro) over others but her boss sure does since they're a Platinum Reseller so I believe it's the only brand of BC and regs you can buy there.