Badly trained?

[Thalassamania]

... when I said I wanted to do "technical diving" our mutual friend put me in the water with the instruction, "Pick up those nuts off the bottom of the pool." And he tossed me a pool net. He learned a lot and so did I! LOL!

 

[Mountain Dog]

thoughtful individuals, like you

First of all, thank you for the compliment.

Second, the story of the checkout dive was a great read and contains some very interesting points. It occurs to me that Mr. Hendrick's search for "truthful" divers isn't far from the concept of "responsible" divers, which I have been advocating.

I'm not differing at all with you on how much training a new diver should have. It seems to me that this is really a question that has as many answers as there are divers.

If I understand what you are suggesting, you would prefer to see a course structure encompassing weeks of training, rather than days, to graduate a candidate to the level of "diver". Setting aside the monetary aspects for a moment (I'll come back to that) I wonder, isn't that the structure the agencies have in place right now? If you add up the number of dives and training days spent going through OW, AOW, and a collection of the more important "specialty" courses, topped off with the Rescue course in order to advance to the level of Divemaster , Master Scuba Diver, or the beginning levels of instructor, haven't you had weeks of training and dozens of dives? Isn't this the same thing, only broken up into smaller segments? Most of us can't commit 6-8 straight weeks to be trained as divers, but if I can break that training up into a dozen bite-sized pieces, in a year or two, I will be able to take my training to the level where I can consider myself a "diver". And I fully realize that even then, my training will never end.

Now for the money aspect. If I were to take a 6-8 week course, how much would an agency have to charge? Probably about the same as the program I just described. Your point about the greed factor is well founded. However, we live in a free market society where virtually everything is driven by the bottom line. The agencies live in that same world. It would be great if diver training were done purely for altruistic motives. But that's not going to happen.

Mountain Dog

 

[Mike D]

I was certified through the YMCA in a class that lasted six weeks, and also completed AOW through the YMCA. The AOW included one night of lecture and five dives that included navigation, night, and deep diving. Of all the classes that I have heard og this is the best one (mostly because of the instructor). It is also the least expensive in my area, the Boston area. To me I have received the best training of any of the other courses around me. Now that I am working on my Divemaster, with the same instructor, I see that this is the best way; the best deal and the longest classes. These longer classes give students more experience, and therefore make better divers.

 

[Brandon Belew]

The class I am currently in can be a little hard to follow sometimes. The pool sessions are in a indoor pool, our class size is 11 students. When the instructors are talking it can sound alot like the teacher from charlie brown due to the echo. Fortunatly, aside from the two instructors there normally is a couple club members who are experienced to help out as well.

I think one of the main problems with inexperienced divers is the reason they are taking the course. If you live in a landlocked state, and do not plan on going to the ocean any time soon. You obviously are diving for the experiences you can obtain under water. Where as a couple members of our class are just taking the course because they are scheduled to go on a cruise which includes diving. Which in most cases, these individuals will not purchase their own equiptment since they only plan on diving once. Since they only plan on diving once, they are less likely to get into diving as some of the others which is a big cause for not knowing what is going on.

Now for the adventure diver certification. Why is it that padi will not let you knock out any of the adventure diver requirements on your open water dives? I am diving with a computer, have been since module two. I am also diving with a camera. According to the manual, these skills for adventure diver are no more then a normal dive using the equiptment so why shouldn't a open water count?

Next question, is it just me or are the videos for each module a little corny.

My 2 cent's

 

[loosebits]

If you add up the number of dives and training days spent going through OW, AOW, and a collection of the more important "specialty" courses, topped off with the Rescue course in order to advance to the level of Divemaster , Master Scuba Diver, or the beginning levels of instructor, haven't you had weeks of training and dozens of dives? Isn't this the same thing, only broken up into smaller segments?

The only difference in the segmented method and a single class is that with a single class an unprepared diver is never placed in OW and not many OW divers go on to rescue.

I think 99% of the time the lack of training in OW results in two things: the under trained diver drops out because they are simply not having fun or the under trained diver learns the basics on his own before his lack of training causes injury.

Here's a possible scenario- an OW diver with just a few dives under his belt goes wall diving in Cozumel or something. While enjoying the reef at 80' (of course they take OW divers to 80'), his LP inflator starts free flowing. An experienced diver would immediately know what to do. How many newly carded OW divers could handle that? Fortunately LP inflators don't free flow that often but shouldn't a newly carded diver be able to handle it? Btw, is that kind of failure even mentioned in OW today?

Perhaps the agencies can list on the back of their cards what all emergencies will likely kill or injure you if they happen before your 25th dive.

 

[Brandon Belew]

Here's a possible scenario- an OW diver with just a few dives under his belt goes wall diving in Cozumel or something. While enjoying the reef at 80' (of course they take OW divers to 80'), his LP inflator starts free flowing. An experienced diver would immediately know what to do. How many newly carded OW divers could handle that? Fortunately LP inflators don't free flow that often but shouldn't a newly carded diver be able to handle it? Btw, is that kind of failure even mentioned in OW today?

Yes free flowing low pressure inflators and regulators are covered in OW training. Well at least in our class.

 

[lucybuykx]

Why is it that padi will not let you knock out any of the adventure diver requirements on your open water dives? I am diving with a computer, have been since module two. I am also diving with a camera. According to the manual, these skills for adventure diver are no more then a normal dive using the equiptment so why shouldn't a open water count?

Diving with a computer and a camera DEFINATELY require additional skills and knowledge. The adventure dive program is light on skills (you do more in subsequent dives on the specialty course) but there are some even if they are not mentioned in the adventure manual.

If you are doing Open Water course you should be concentrating on getting mastery on those skills and not be distracted with additional items and tasks like taking photographs. OW students may take a camera and do the the first dive of UW digital photography - but ONLY after passing all the OW skills on dive 4.

 

[Brandon Belew]

Diving with a computer and a camera DEFINATELY require additional skills and knowledge. The adventure dive program is light on skills (you do more in subsequent dives on the specialty course) but there are some even if they are not mentioned in the adventure manual.

If you are doing Open Water course you should be concentrating on getting mastery on those skills and not be distracted with additional items and tasks like taking photographs. OW students may take a camera and do the the first dive of UW digital photography - but ONLY after passing all the OW skills on dive 4.

I can understand how it can be a distraction, that is why I don't mess with the camera until after the skills. In the pool we always do the skills then just swim around for awhile that's when I screw with the camera. As far as the computer, it's pretty intuative, not really much to learn about it's operation. It only has one button

 

[LIVES4SHARKS]

Well after taking my first ocean dives with my scuba shop, I was suprised how none of them had any buoyancy control. I had it because I have been training with a cave diver for the past 2 months who taught me trim and buoyancy on day one. My dive shop told me that trim and buoyancy will come after about 30 dives. But, if you don't know what it is in the beginning, then how are you going to learn it after 30 bad dives? Most of the divers in my group were AOW and most had over 50 dives. Heck all of them had to hold the line to ascend. That is something I am still working on, but at least I don't fin when I hold on. Sheesh. I was also ridiculed for my set up and that I didn't need to demonstrate how to work with my setup in an OOA situation. I am on a long hose and octo necklace so hey whatever. I guess they can just keep looking on my BC for the octo. I learned alot on these dives. I know that I need to look into a new DS and also to find a better set of buddies for my ocean dives! Oh well, live and learn!
Happy Diving y'all!!!
Carolyn
ps I am in the pool regularly working on skills. My LDS has told me that I cannot learn buoyancy in a pool, and that I can only develop my skills in OW. So, basically my dive shop has done nothing but impead my learning. Thank goodness I found a mentor who has been an assett to improving my abilities in the pool and in OW.

 

[Brandon Belew]

I was also ridiculed for my set up and that I didn't need to demonstrate how to work with my setup in an OOA situation. I am on a long hose and octo necklace so hey whatever. I guess they can just keep looking on my BC for the octo. I learned alot on these dives. I know that I need to look into a new DS and also to find a better set of buddies for my ocean dives! Oh well, live and learn!
Happy Diving y'all!!!
Carolyn
ps I am in the pool regularly working on skills.

I puzzle my in-class dive buddies weekly, when they look for my octo and find nothing. I use a air2 ( bundled w/ my inflator hose ) Kinda fun though, keep's them on their toes.