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Speaking of ethics...

I don't market DM classes....the DM candidate does an internship working with my classes. They're one more student in the water to watch so I can only have a couple (at most) DM candidates at any one time. I have to train some so that I have DM's but I don't have anybody work in front of my classes unless they are going to be the kind of staff I want (in all kinds of ways).
 
Coogeeman once bubbled...
<snip>. She turned around and said that no one at Pro Dive uses Mares and that if he wanted to do the course with them and work for them as a Divemaster he would have to buy Aqualung.

<snip>

I can understand wanting your instructors in the gear they sell in the store. The shop where our club is based does something along these lines too but they request (don't demand) us to be dressed in rental stock for teaching if our own gear isn't the same.....

At least he replaced his reg with a better one :)

R..
 
dugandiving once bubbled...
The dive shops that have been discussed are finding themselves in the position of a dog chasing its own tail. They are annoyed at losing business, take it out on the customer, who will take their business elsewhere, hence the dive shop is now in a worse position than they were originally

This position from Dugandiving tells the truth.
My choices in LDS shops are:
1. the femme-nazi
2. the no jokes in my store (I'm Mr. tech)' and leave if you don't plan to buy anything.
3. the ain't I wonderfull, look at all the pictures of myself posted on the walls and you are only allowed "scuba-pro"!
4. the welcome to my store, how come you didn't buy all you gear here, how come you didn't book your trip through me! ( even though you could save a thousand dollars, I need the money more than you do).
5. new choice = buy-online :)

However, I still manage to use the femme-nazi a bit.

Caymaniac:D
 
Am I the only one who finds northeastwrecks to be just a bit pompous and overbearing on this thread?

By the way, I presume that your attitude is a reflection of your utter ignorance on this subject. After all, you know what they say about those who can't....

A little friendly advice. After a grand total of 13 posts, I really wouldn't recommend starting a contest on the Board.

WTH is that all about? Just because somebody has fewer posts than you do their opinion is not valid? I detect a lot of defensiveness in your posts about Genesis. I am not going to say I agree with everything on all of those pages of his, but I don't see anything on the dive manufacturer's petition that makes his points on the practices of dive equipment manufacturers or dive shops to be incorrect or somehow less relevant because of his other causes.

Face it, the LDS in most places is a monopoly (if you value face to face interaction and local convenience and prefer not to buy online) and by aligning themselves with manufacturers who demand monopolies within the shops they sell from, they deprive users of options when buying gear. To then go and refuse to give classes to anybody who won't buy gear from them or who in the past bought gear elsewhere is stupid, authoritarian, and monopolistic if the shop is the only one around the area. All they are doing is forcing people to either dive without training they want or have a need for, and to buy equipment online reinforcing the flow of money away from LDSs and to online outlets. If diving is going to remain a "self-regulated" "community" where everybody has the "best interest of the sport" in mind, then there is no place for any LDS that will deny a diver the right to be trained properly for reasons involving equipment purchases.

I am lucky enough to live in Houston, where the dive shops here know that if they piss me off, it is a short drive down the street to the next shop. I have at least 6 shopes within 20 miles of my office, so I always have another choice if somebody treats me without respect. If I had to deal with nazis like this in order to engage in what is supposed to be a relaxing hobby, I would quit or buy everything online. Rest assured, I would NEVER spend my hard earned money paying to help keep jerks like these LDS owner's in business.

AggieDiver
 
AggieDiver

As things are now, the fact is that if a class doesn't sell equipment there just isn't any reason to teach it.
 
Quality service and profitablity are as essential to a dive shop as air and water are to life.

It sounds like this outfit in Australia has lost touch of this. People who are as selective about their staffs as Mike seems to be have figured it out--the first half at least. Good luck with the second piece!
 
Doesn't seem to be valued much. Pity.

AggieDiver once bubbled...
Am I the only one who finds northeastwrecks to be just a bit pompous and overbearing on this thread?
I'd call it more just being a little punchy at having his advice and statements ignored and smart remarks made about his ethics.
Leastways - that's about where I'd be if it was my professional opinion and my professional ethics being dismissed out of hand by the unqualified.

Sheesh. Do the physicians who donate what would otherwise be very expensive time to correct misconceptions and give advice on this board get mouthed off to the same way? No?
If those arguing and contradicting NEW on legal issues are also qualified lawyers, then please let 'em say so and take the debate to it's proper level. Otherwise - some of you are arguing with a pro here and it looks pretty foolish.

JMnon-lawyerO take it for whatever you think it's worth.
 
AggieDiver once bubbled...
Am I the only one who finds northeastwrecks to be just a bit pompous and overbearing on this thread?





WTH is that all about? Just because somebody has fewer posts than you do their opinion is not valid? I detect a lot of defensiveness in your posts about Genesis. I am not going to say I agree with everything on all of those pages of his, but I don't see anything on the dive manufacturer's petition that makes his points on the practices of dive equipment manufacturers or dive shops to be incorrect or somehow less relevant because of his other causes.

You missed out last night, when the member to whom I was responding submitted a series of posts questioning my ethics, making generally insulting remarks about Americans and insinuating that I was an ambulance chaser (I'm a patent litigator).

What you see is the aftermath of Rick Murchison's and Spectre's cleanup of the thread, when many of his posts were pulled.

That explains the apology from the diver in question that appeared a few pages earlier.

As to the rest, Cat is mostly on point. I'm not going to pretend that a position taken on a legal matter has merit when it does not. In fact, what I wrote was substantially nicer than what I would have said if it happened at work.

I actually don't care if anyone a practicing member of the bar. I deal with enough of those people. However, I do wish that people would not shoot off their mouths by expressing fanciful opinions that are not based in reality as if they were facts.

I see this in the students at the law school where I teach. They need to be reminded constantly that no one cares about your opinion. What counts is the law and the application of law to a particular set of facts.

I do disagree with your statement that the LDS is a monopoly. In my area, there are at least three shops within a 40 minute drive. There are at least four more within a 1 hour drive. That's seven shops with whom I can deal. Others have said as much.

As for Diversunion, I made no comments. I merely provided information. If you're comfortable casting your lot with the organizer, then that's your business. Personally, however, I prefer that howling madmen don't have access to my address.

Finally, let me emphasize that, if this had been my LDS, I would have left and taken as much of the business with me as I possibly could. However, I would also recognize that this is the only thing that I could do.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...
AggieDiver

As things are now, the fact is that if a class doesn't sell equipment there just isn't any reason to teach it.

Why is that? How do you compensate your assistants?

Do you have a club? It's easy to have a club. Ours has about 250 members, loosely organised and all recruited from courses. They all pay $25 a month and what they get in return is 10% discount on equipment and "discover local diving" for free. Each year some more come and some leave so the numbers are pretty stable. The DM's work on a volunteer basis with minimal compensation. The compensation amounts in real terms to nevre having to pay for air again plus a couple of hundred bucks in free equipment per year and additional training (specialties) for cost price.... and of course the opportunity to participate in team training and get some experience without having to make a formal commitment. For most of us it's still a hobby.

IN our case it's really win win. The store has a fairly big active club with enough instructors and DM's to manage about 300 certs a year, the club has all the facilities that the store has to offer, like the compressor, pool time, rental gear and somewhere to meet and give the training and the students get a small discount on gear and more or less free DM supervision until they're comfortable enough to go it alone.

And the store manages about 200K in net profit per year. Maybe we're lucky that there isn't too much competition and a diver base of about 15,000 PADI and about 35,000 CMAS divers all within about 100km radius and about 10+% growth in the market each year.

R..
 
Diver0001 once bubbled...
It's easy to have a club. Ours has about 250 members, loosely organised and all recruited from courses. They all pay $25 a month
Where? What's the name of the club? If you can collect $25/month from 250 folks for a club, I want to model that!
Rick
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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