Better alternative to 3cf spare air?

[84CJ7]

Edit at bottom of thread.
This has been pretty well hashed in other threads but I am finding it frustratingly difficult to wade through the search results for alternative options.

I have a 19cf pony bottle since a 13 was my minimum "needed" and a 19 wasn't much taller, my wife would rather dive with no extra tank backup.

Despite efforts to be perfect buddies diving, experience suggests that either we swim around baby sitting each other and not enjoying the dive as much, or we enjoy the dive and check on each other far too infrequently or accidentally get separated by distances of up to 20 feet which can be more than visibility on many dives locally.

I have managed to talk her into a spare air 3cf as a means to give her either a more controlled direct ascent or time to get to me and communicate her need if we aren't right in front of each other when something happens.

The advantages to the spare air that worked for her were that it was small (very thin) and light compared to my pony, plus it didn't have any hoses or regulators to work with, you just pull it out of its carry pouch and breathe off it. Being able to fill it off her main tank if necessary was also a big plus. Its also nice that it can travel fairly easy for the less common tropical vacation dives, something my 19cf will not be doing.

I am well aware of Scubaboards views on the usefulness of a spare air but I honestly can't think of any way to even get a 6cf pony tank cut down to that level of compact and simple. Plus I am working uphill on the issue since she doesn't think its worth bothering in the first place.

We can skip the whole sac rate and required tank size BS on this one, unless you have ideas for a tiny simple 6cf I don't think she would consider it and even that size might be a stretch.

EDIT: I just stumbled across this h2odyssey air source 3 thing (on a 6cf) which appears to be someones attempt to come up with exactly what I am looking for, anyone know anything about it?

 

[ams511]

Spare Air is better than nothing as long as it does not give your wife a false sense of security. The only thing I can recommend is to try mounting the pony on her main tank and routing the octo off the pony tank. That way it will be similar to what she is diving with and the tank will be out of the way. She may be able to drop some weight off her belt too.

 

[EricTheDood]

Is your 19CF slung or tank-mounted?

You could sling two ponies and clip one onto her once in the water.

 

[84CJ7]

The 19 started tank mounted, but now is slung though I haven't got that quite right yet.
I might end up going back to tank mounted but I hate carrying extra stuff behind me since my slightly too big for me Zeagle Brigade likes to shift side to side as it is at depth and that just makes it worse even when weight balanced with my rear trim pockets. When I sell it and get a correctly fitted BP&W (hopefully soon) it may go on the back again.
Anyone want a like new size L Zeagle Brigade with yellow weight thingies, lumbar pad and rear trim pockets?

 

[RyanT]

Despite efforts to be perfect buddies diving, experience suggests that either we swim around baby sitting each other and not enjoying the dive as much, or we enjoy the dive and check on each other far too infrequently or accidentally get separated by distances of up to 20 feet which can be more than visibility on many dives locally.

It sounds like you are looking for an equipment solution to a skills problem. My buddy and I dive as a tight team and it's not difficult at all, even in low vis. We don't have to baby sit each other. We plan our dive and then all I need to do is glance over to ensure that she is where I think she is. If she stops to look at something, I look too. If I stop to look, she looks too. It's really effortless and enjoyable. I spent the first 20 years of my diving career doing mostly solo dives. Admittedly, I had a little bit of re-learning to figure out how to dive as a good buddy team, but it works.

 

[Kharon]

We can skip the whole sac rate and required tank size BS on this one, unless you have ideas for a tiny simple 6cf I don't think she would consider it and even that size might be a stretch.

EDIT: I just stumbled across this h2odyssey air source 3 thing (on a 6cf) which appears to be someones attempt to come up with exactly what I am looking for, anyone know anything about it?

Add - skip the "equipment solution to a skills problem" bushwah as well. Having an independant air source is just sensible and best practice - even in a good buddy team. If it was not useful SDI would not make an independant air source a requirement for solo diving in their Solo Divers Course and recommend a pony over other methods. And having an alternate air source is just an extra "ounce of prevention" - buddy or not.

I have used the H2Odyssey for years. First on a 13cf and now on 6cf bottles. I have both a bottle rigged with the EAS2 valve/1st stage and a hose and octo as well as the H2Odyssey Extra Air Source 3.

As far as how big - it's a matter of dive parameters. No one size fits all. Personally, I have made a few slow ascents with 3 minute safety stop from 130' on a 13cf. Not for everyone I know. I just had to see if I could do it. These days I seldom dive below 40' and almost never below 60'. I can easily make a slow ascent from those depths on a 6cf and still have a safety stop (though perhaps shortened from 60'). Again, not for everyone. If I am going deeper I just sling both 6cf's giving me 12cf.

I dive the one with the hose when I'm diving with others in the water because the octo on my shoulder and bright yellow hose are more normal to other divers. I also discuss its use, practice deployment, and assure them that I will pass the bottle to them once they are breathing from the octo before splashing.

I dive the compact (no hose) Extra Air Source when diving solo. There is less folderol to deal with since there is no hose and deployment is a snap with the tear-away release on the bag.

On either, I dive with the pressure on so all that is needed in an emergency is to purge and suck air. I sling both and will certainly notice any freeflow, but since I de-tune the 2nd stages slightly I've never had a freeflow.

Hope your wife goes for the H2Odyssey. It's totally unnoticable - even on land. It's a small price to pay if you ever need it. I never have but will not ever dive (even to 15 feet) without it.

 

[kelemvor]

There are first stage regulators that are built right into the tank valve which you can put on any tank. My LDS sells them, and eventually I'll get one to put on my pony. They make a pony much more appealing since you have far less stuff involved. Still have a hose of some sort and a second stage, but I guess you could probably track down a super short LP hose.

Zeagle Envoy is one. Amazon.com : Zeagle Envoy Razor Regulator : Diving Equipment : Sports & Outdoors $329 here, but I could have sworn my LDS had them for $200. Maybe I'm remembering wrong. There are other brands.

 

[uncfnp]

@84CJ7 I understand your concern and it sounds a bit like Eric and I diving together. Added to that was the fact that Eric has poor peripheral awareness so it is next to impossible to get his attention, in or out of the water. And the fact that we started hunting, a solo oriented activity. We decided together that solo training and redundancy was a better choice for us then team/buddy diving.

Choice of redundancy can be tough and takes a certain degree of self awareness to know your strengths and weakness. As a female, a 3 cf might well be sufficient for her dives. But obviously it does have its limitations. What is it about the idea of redundancy that she doesn't like?

Consider too a solo course for her, especially if she is resistent to redundancy. In addition to added equipment, it also encourages a different approach and "mindset" to diving that might be beneficial to her.

 

[2airishuman]

EDIT: I just stumbled across this h2odyssey air source 3 thing (on a 6cf) which appears to be someones attempt to come up with exactly what I am looking for, anyone know anything about it?

Let's start with what a spare air is.

The current production ones are:a 1.5cf or 3cf aluminum 3000 PSI cylinder, with a nonstandard smaller neck thread, equipped with an integrated regulator that combines: valve, 1st stage, 2nd stage. Refill is via an adapter.

For larger, you can get the h2odyssey. Same idea, but a standard neck thread and separate 2nd stage that doesn't use a hose -- it's attached directly to the 1st stage using a swivel. Cylinder sizes vary.

You can roll your own, as it were, using valve-integrated 1st stages. Piranha has these for sale online as do various other retailers. You can add a 2nd stage using either a swivel or a hose, and again, refill is via an adapter.

You can also get transfill whips that will allow you to transfer air between two cylinders with standard yoke or DIN valves.

The drawback of the valve-integrated 1st stages is that you can't remove the regulator, whether for ease of transportation and storage, or troubleshooting, or to move it to another cylinder.

 

[scubadada]

The Zeagle Razor 6 cf package lists for $515

The H2Odessy 6 cf system appears to cost $330. It does not use a hose between 1st and 2nd stage, has a direct connection, more like a SpareAir