Boat captain encouraging wreck penetration

[Marie13]

I need to tread carefully with this post, given the parties involved...

I went diving on Lake Michigan today. My LDS' boat was booked up all weekend, so I went with a competitor. The wrecks were 85ft and 74ft to the keel. There has been a lot of wind for the past few days, so the lake was pretty churned up. Captain said viz was probably going to be pretty bad.

As he's giving up the briefing on the first wreck (a cleaned up 200ft car ferry specifically sunk for divers/fish habit more than 10 years ago), he is talking about people penetrating the wreck. He's enthusiastic about it. There is no mention of "if you have the training and equipment" to penetrate. He had no clue if we had lights and wreck reels, let alone the training to penetrate. My instabuddy, a really nice gal in her 20s, and I looked at each other in horror and immediately agreed we didn't feel comfortable doing it and would not. I told her about my wreck class on the lake, just last weekend, where the 3rd limited penetration (within the light zone for other newbies) dive was called due to very bad viz.

My first reaction to hearing the captain talk about penetrating the wreck was WTF?! Going into overheads without training/proper gear can get people hurt or killed. I always have in mind this incident of a diver trapped in the Cedarville, a wreck in the Straits of Mackinac. Pretty sobering stuff.

Wreck Dive Rescue: Trapped Inside the Cedarville

Viz on the wreck turned out to be 10ft, if that. As we were swimming over the open hatches, I thought, "You wanted me to penetrate in *these* conditions?!"

 

[tomfcrist]

Sometimes the VI's is better inside a wreck than outside, that being said, the brief should also include the "if you are trained and equipped to penetrate" verbiage.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Many dive boats are different than resort dive locations. The customers are expected to know their limits and be able to make the dives they signed up for without hand-holding or a DM leading them around. A boat dive in the Great Lakes sounds like a typical "yer on yer own once you hit the water" boat. The Captain wasn't forcing anyone to do something dangerous. It's up to each diver to decide what they will do in poor conditions.

 

[lowviz]

...//... My first reaction to hearing the captain talk about penetrating the wreck was WTF?! Going into overheads without training/proper gear can get people hurt or killed. ...//... Viz on the wreck turned out to be 10ft, if that. As we were swimming over the open hatches, I thought, "You wanted me to penetrate in *these* conditions?!"

You were treated like a capable, intelligent adult. Why are you whining about the option he gave you? Would it have been a better experience if he acted like your mom?

Scroll down to Progressive Penetration. I highly recommend it. Navigation Aids ~ Gear & Training ~ New Jersey Scuba Diving

 

[Marie13]

You were treated like a capable, intelligent adult. Why are you whining about the option he gave you? Would it have been a better experience if he acted like your mom?

Scroll down to Progressive Penetration. I highly recommend it. Navigation Aids ~ Gear & Training ~ New Jersey Scuba Diving

So sue me for erring on the side of caution! What if one of the unexperienced/untrained had taken this as an OK to penetrate, with no light and no reel, got lost in a silted out wreck, and died?

I'd consider this to be a "trust me" dive.

 

[The Chairman]

Penetration or a sanitized swim through? If she was prepped. sanitized and sunk on purpose then she's a 'fake wreck' and not a screamer. I've seen divers over react to the swim throughs on the Speigel Grove. No one's going to force you to do those swim throughs. No one's going to prevent you either. Divers get to feel like they're 'penetrating' with little of the danger and without the need to do any prep. Just don't do it on a screamer (people screaming as it went down). That's a totally different animal.

 

[northernone]

I too appreciate knowing the possibilities during a briefing and being given the honor of deciding if they are within my desire and abilities. Similarly, I've had boat captains mention a wall on a dive goes down 600ft. I'd feel insulted if he felt the need to tell me not to go all the way to the bottom. Personal responsibility within diving is crucial.

Being treated like an adult is a good thing in my books.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[rhwestfall]

@Marie13

Yeah, you are going to get a little "beat up" on this one as you can see. You are earning your wings, and learning to fly. Welcome to "the big leagues". At this stage it is about knowing your limitations, and deciding what you want to do. The crowd will be all types. Knowing what is available is what we all expect. Knowing what to do is a personal choice. Doing what you want to do.... nice job on your personal choice! Don't beat up the taxi. He did the right thing.

 

[lowviz]

I was going to reply, but Bob nailed it.

That was not a "trust me" dive. The cap just tossed you the keys. Up to you what to do with them...

 

[Wookie]

I don't believe he's a taxi, but that's a whole different thread. He gave a thorough briefing. He briefed the OW divers (vis is poor), he briefed the advanced divers (there are easy penetration holes in the boat) and he briefed the wreck divers (here's what to expect inside). Sounds like a thorough briefing for any divers who could be on the boat.