Bonne Terre Mine, MO

[bigblue63304]

Yeah, if you do go to Bonn terre mines, they won't shut up about two minutes of footage being shot in the old lead mine. They are the only people I will rag on, only because I seen first hand, some very unforgivable mistakes with a buch of newbies, that should have been cared for more a lot more than they were, and if it wasn't for the people that paid to go there, they might have been fishing somebodies out later that day.

This is one of the safest sports in the world, when people follow their training!! And there are no other sports out there, that has so many different ave. to go through. It's really a crying shame when you have an ego maniac, running a center and his personality starts attracting others just like him, then you get nothing but a big pissing contest between all of the dive guides, and they are only concerened with how cool they are.

One bad apple can do so much damage. I have done several dives with them because they was not too many placese to go in Missouri. I have 10 trips in that mine under my belt, because I used to live less than an hour away.

 

[crpntr133]

OK, now I am totally confused. bigblue63304 you come along and grind your axe, tell everybody how horrible and unsafe this place is and now you are saying that you have ten trips in the mine. I am glad that we have SB so we can tell others what we think but two and two aren't adding up to four here. Past present or future, 10 trips is a lot for someone that doesn't like this place I don't care how close you live. Kinda like saying "I know I am going to kill myself doing this but I am going to do it anyway."
The people that I met are far from being egotistical. Some weren't the friendliest, not rude just short on conversation, but they are there to do a job and are focused. One of the women that I talked to on the dock gave me more info than I really needed but it was all interesting.

 

[Quarrior]

...Mid-West SCUBA in St.Charles has had an accident in there cave and cavern diving!

Let's not forget the other fine diving shops in the St Louis area, since we are mentioning one. I have experience diving with Scuba Shop USA, The Dive Shop of St Louis, and The Great American Diving Company. All of which in my estimation, run very safe and sane dive ops and all have great staff.

I do most of my business with Scuba Shop USA for three reasons, 1) they do not bash any manufacturer or other shop, 2) they will compete with the internet on equipment prices, and 3) great friendly staff and service. Oh, btw, it's about 20 miles out of my way to get there.http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14303

 

[bigblue63304]

Yeah! I made 10 runs with them, because they were so very near to where I used to live, it was almost impossible to turn down the opportunity for a dive. If you don't live in Missouri, find someone who dives that lives in that state and ask them about the available dive sites. At first everything was cool, next time some newbies were there, and having problems with gear. They were told to get it going or miss the run. I also seen people that needed to rent some gear and they weren't real familar with what they had, and when they asked of help, they were treated with a little less than dignity, which can cause people not to ask questions about gear there not real cool with. then tail guides the next couple of times left people behind and went up with the lead guide until the dive was done. It got worse until the unthinkable happened, and not just once. I don't own a dive shop, I do not teach at any dives shops, and there is no profit for me to make by telling people the truth/lies. Its really a shame that accidents happen, and eventhough some of them are fatal. Diving is still the safest sport to be in, when in the company of competent dive groups. I'm sure that all dive shops have there occasional accidents, and that is just a fact of life. But, constant accidents occuring when there is a surface, head, middle, and tail guide with a group, speaks very loud about the care given to the tourist. When someone (tourist) hires a guide to take them to where ever it is they want to go. They are not thinking I hope these guys are good and will look out for me, they expect the guides to be of the finest quality guides that only have there saftey in mind without questions. This by no means suggest that a tourist should take on a dive they are not comfortable with, and moreover not trained for. Im not for sure, but I think you can go to Dan's website and find an accident log. I strongly suggest that anyone new to the sport, that does not have a constant dive buddy, to research any outfit for there safty record, and make an informed decission for themselves, if that is the group they want to trust. For my personal first hand, being there and done that experience. I have to say Hell no! For as having an axe to grind, that is really N/A. But, if speaking up about my personal experiences causes a newbie, or someone new to this area of diving makes them think twice about the reality of the situation. Then so be it! This is what one of the absolute benefits of a message board is for, and it is one of the first things a newbie goes to when they first take an interest in this sport.

OK, now I am totally confused. bigblue63304 you come along and grind your axe, tell everybody how horrible and unsafe this place is and now you are saying that you have ten trips in the mine. I am glad that we have SB so we can tell others what we think but two and two aren't adding up to four here. Past present or future, 10 trips is a lot for someone that doesn't like this place I don't care how close you live. Kinda like saying "I know I am going to kill myself doing this but I am going to do it anyway."
The people that I met are far from being egotistical. Some weren't the friendliest, not rude just short on conversation, but they are there to do a job and are focused. One of the women that I talked to on the dock gave me more info than I really needed but it was all interesting.

 

[HammerNoMore]

And the broken record skips again...tell me do you have any actual facts to back up these malicous claims of "many deaths". or do you just expect every "newbie" that comes along to believe your "truths" because you keep rambing on about it?

Furthermore, do you have any actual content to provide this board other than using it as a canvas for your personal vendetta against a shop? How long ago did they fire you anyway?

 

[Randy43068]

I'm going to the mines next weekend. I'll let everyone know my thoughts about the entire experience.

 

[pete v]

I'm going to the mines next weekend. I'll let everyone know my thoughts about the entire experience.

i would love to dive it once just to say that i have, but they have a bad rep when it comes to customer service, and as a "newbie" i may need some extra time and a little more direction than others. who knows maybe some day.

 

[Quarrior]

And the broken record skips again...tell me do you have any actual facts to back up these malicous claims of "many deaths". or do you just expect every "newbie" that comes along to believe your "truths" because you keep rambing on about it?

Furthermore, do you have any actual content to provide this board other than using it as a canvas for your personal vendetta against a shop? How long ago did they fire you anyway?

:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: :god: :god: :god: :god: :god:

 

[HammerNoMore]

i would love to dive it once just to say that i have, but they have a bad rep when it comes to customer service, and as a "newbie" i may need some extra time and a little more direction than others. who knows maybe some day.

BTM's customer service has always been questioned. After all they charge Hawaii prices for Midwest Dives. You have to add to that the fact that they have pretty stingent rules, no knives, no lights, etc.

Here is my understanding of the situation. Yes a lot of people have died in the mine. Why? Well there used to be multiple entrances and people just went in and dove on their own, without the proper experience. The authorities decided this was not good and closed off the entrances, except for one.

One was left open and is now maketed as a dive site. The onwers put these "silly" rules into effect to maintain safety. In spite of certain malicous claims, the mine has maintained an excellent safety record since then. Yes there has been one fatality in the mine since it became controlled, and IIRC it was either due to natural causes or because of people diving outside of their skillset. Still the owners put more controls in to make it a safer place to dive.

Remember folks, parts of this mine are an overhead environment and yes there are dangers in that. Just like there are dangers in the Mexico cenote's, where thousands of people dive every year with only recreational credientials.

Do I think they "overprotect" in Bonne Terre Mine? Yep. Are they unsafe? No way. Somebody has a grudge that seems to be ruling their life, they should get over it....

James

 

[theskull]

BTM's customer service has always been questioned. After all they charge Hawaii prices for Midwest Dives. You have to add to that the fact that they have pretty stingent rules, no knives, no lights, etc. . . . .

The customer service has lots of room for improvement -- but they do run a difficult operation and spend so much focus on safety and managing the details of an inconvenient equipment portage that not alot of energy is left for additional attention to the many fairly inexperienced customers they attract.

I also think the prices are high -- but just try to book a reservation for 4 divers on short notice; they are booked up solid at those prices, so why should they charge less.

All the rules are safety-based and some have allowances.

No primary light on the first dive, but you can carry a back-up light if you request.

No knife--there has never been any fishing line in there, so a knife is not needed as a safety device. A rescue-trained diver may point out that it could be handy in a rescue and gear-removal scenario and quietly be told that yes, he may carry his knife. Their primary concern is that a diver will use a knife to attempt to collect souvenirs or leave graffiti -- and we know that can happen!

The mine is an excellent dive experience if you come prepared to dive (in cold water) and check your attitude at the door. You will be told when and how to dive and be expected to follow-the-leader. And you will be treated to a historical site in perfect visibility with excellent lighting provided.

Have fun diving,

theskull

*This post may look like a rebuttal to James' abridged quote, but he and I are really making the same points.