British wreck divers fined for retrieving artifacts

[DaleC]

I understand the confusion... Nobody expects the Spanish Armada!

 

[GrandpaScuba]

They didn't get fined enough. The total fines should have, at least, equaled the estimated value of the taken artifacts. Even if they didn't sell them.

 

[OtherHalf]

They didn't get fined enough. The total fines should have, at least, equaled the estimated value of the taken artifacts. Even if they didn't sell them.

I'd love to hear your reasoning for that position...

 

[Storker]

I'd love to hear your reasoning for that position...

I'd guess simple risk assessment. If there's a 50/50 chance of getting caught, then confiscation plus a fine equal to estimated value would put the "collectors" at break even in the long run, and with a lower risk of getting caught, they would benefit in the long run. The lower the risk of getting caught, the higher the fine if it's supposed to have any deterrence value. If there's a 10% chance of getting caught, simple math tells us that a fine must be at least 10 times the estimated value of the goods to have any chance of deterring illegal "collection".

 

[Jared0425]

I have still yet to find information on the location of the wrecks that were being stripped. The U-Boats have sovereign immunity supposedly protecting them, but armed merchants are still fair game.

 

[DaleC]

First, how do you assign value to something sitting underwater.
Second, if it has a defined value, why is it being left underwater.
Third, as soon as you assign it value, you make it more collectable.

I don't support collecting off historically significant wrecks/war graves etc... but I find it hard to justify claiming all that "junk" under water that might be dynamited or cable hauled or has been abandoned and deemed not worthy of salvage is at the same time the property of the state for perpetuity. It doesn't last forever and will be buried or destroyed if not reclaimed (in many cases).

 

[Bazzer69]

There was a BBC report a few days ago that many of he First World War warships have been completely removed, cut up for their metal, scrap value. Legally of course. But since the battle of Jutland is now just over a hundred years old, those ships, rightly so, are now protected from salvage.
These guys mistake was not declaring the salvage which is illegal


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[Jared0425]

I agree with many that graves and warships be protected, but I voice concern over other wrecks that lay forgotten. No one heared of the HMS Garrisopa [SIC], before Oddessy marine found it, along with a few others. People who put the time and effort in trying to save a wreck or it's artifacts should not be fined if it does not meet criteria set by national/ international law. The battle of Jutland wrecks were used as target practice for the Royal Navy along with the Lusitania. If these guys stripped a protected wreck, then they should be fined and prosecuted. If they salvaged artifacts from historically insignificant wrecks, them they should be awarded with the artifacts they found, or thanked for saving them from the sea and time.

The Spanish Armada wrecks kicked me off and I started to do research on them, and I found that many of the wrecks were undisclosed/ undiscovered. So that should lead shipwrecks hunters incentive to find them.

 

[Storker]

If they salvaged artifacts from historically insignificant wrecks, them they should be awarded with the artifacts they found, or thanked for saving them from the sea and time.

Um, it wasn't the "salvage" that was wrong. It was not reporting it that was wrong. More than a slight difference.

These guys mistake was not declaring the salvage which is illegal

I'm in the "leave the stuff for others to see" camp. And if private persons are allowed to collect artifacts from certain wrecks, I think a requirement to report the find allowing the authorities to have first pick of stuff of historic interest is a good way to ensure that our history can be secured for the whole public instead of a selected few.

Besides that, your (or my) opinion doesn't really matter here. Local laws, OTOH, matter, and these guys broke the law.


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[Ste Wart]

If these guys stripped a protected wreck, then they should be fined and prosecuted. If they salvaged artifacts from historically insignificant wrecks, them they should be awarded with the artifacts they found, or thanked for saving them from the sea and time.

Jared they did not save them from 'the sea and time'. Conservation of materials retrieved from salt water is a long and costly process, wood, for example can take years to preserve with PEG. Some of the things these guys lifted is now in a terrible state of condition as they didn't have a clue what to do with it once lifted.

Archaeologists would love to lift all historically important wrecks, preserve them and display them for the world. However, cost, lack of museum space and time are hindering factors, hence why the mantra is normally to preserve it in situ.